Bring back NF please

Started 17 Jun 2019
by Turt
in Open Community Votes
With the NF maps duos, smallmans, 8s, were able to get around easily and have enough room to actually maneuver and get real fights. Bring back NF! It will only help the population and give us more stuff to do and more stuff to fight. It’s hard to go back to OF after giving us NF like that. Pleeeeaase.
Mon 17 Jun 2019 5:16 AM by Myllasia
No thanks, OF for EVER !
Mon 17 Jun 2019 5:24 AM by REVOLTE
What people seem to forget here.....
its not really OF we are playing here.
original OF is really flawed (especially from a hib point of view)...but doesnt the current version of OF (with keep ports!) fix most of the issues for hibs?

anyway....i have given NF a fair chance and i can clearly see why some people love it. but for MY playstyle (duo-smallman mostly) its just plain garbage. i basically had 3 options:

1. Roam --> took FOREVER to find fights i could engage on.
2. Camp --> nice RPs...but boring as balls and not what im looking for gameplay-wise
3. Keeps --> NF keeps are a little too big for my liking (not saying that OF keeps are great n all) plus im not enjoying keepsieges that much in general....unless im playing hib

as you can see....all 3 options dont look very appealing.
i dig OF with ports. a lot.
Mon 17 Jun 2019 5:56 AM by Druth
For me, as a solo non-speed visible, it's been anti-climactic to log in.

I feel forced through specific areas in OF.

With 3 kids I am mainly able to play in sprints/bursts of 1 hour, and I never know when I need to afk, so grouping is a rare thing for me, and only happens when my wife is a saint.

Guess time will tell, but I don't want my time here being spend on:
- Being ganked in impossible to bypass ares.
- Trying to find stealthers, that will vanish if I actually somehow manage to find them. And the whole mechanic that I could be running past a potential fight, but since I can't see it I just keep running, is frustratingly bad to me.
- Finding some of the few other solo visible.
- Join BG zergs.

Guess making a hunter will be my eventual solution in OF, or taking a break again, but OF/NF I don't want the server to die.
Mon 17 Jun 2019 6:45 AM by DasBier
Yep NF please
Mon 17 Jun 2019 8:01 AM by Duukar
NF please. I missed it badly.

Bring NF back!
Mon 17 Jun 2019 8:48 AM by Gorgoroth
So, my opinion is a mix now. Plenty of negatives on NF, but seeing plenty short commings of OF too.

NF can potentially have good keep fights and the ones i happened to participate in were okay for the most part, after the guard spawn tweaks. Its still very hard as an assassin without buff charges to try to knock out a clothie with proper spec buffs and his group close by in those attacks, but the NF keep design is much better than our OF keeps.

I accept that many wish to keep NF for this reason, and also as group fights are probably very predictable with an updating warmap.

That said though, i think the stealth game was worse with NF than it is with OF. The area of interest you visit in NF as an assassin is smaller than it was with OF and those areas are really crowded by other stealthers so that either you look like a zerger as everyone adds on your opponent, or you get unstealthed for a team to unload on you.

Im not saying that this always happened and that it was impossible to avoid, but subjectively speaking it was more frequent as it was in OF.

So conclusion for me? I surely do prefer OF, but i can live with NF as well. Its just less enjoyable for me thanks to its size and unnecessary long travel distances which lead to boring downtime.

I would be fine with a weekly swap between OF and NF though. Thats better than having only NF in this classic setting.

KR
Mon 17 Jun 2019 9:13 AM by inoeth
come back, baby come back YES for NF
Mon 17 Jun 2019 9:26 AM by Camagee
NF is so much better
Mon 17 Jun 2019 9:51 AM by oldman001
yes NF please more area for all styles terrain is much better
Mon 17 Jun 2019 9:55 AM by Pops999
One thread wasn't special enough for you? I'm going to vote OF just to spite you.
Mon 17 Jun 2019 10:32 AM by Vlas
yes for NF had more fun last week than I have had since this server started
Mon 17 Jun 2019 11:01 AM by Estat
Gorgoroth wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 8:48 AM
That said though, i think the stealth game was worse with NF than it is with OF. The area of interest you visit in NF as an assassin is smaller than it was with OF and those areas are really crowded by other stealthers so that either you look like a zerger as everyone adds on your opponent, or you get unstealthed for a team to unload on you.
What you describe sounds exactly like what I've experienced between amg and apk, on the way from amg to mmg and between mmg and mtk in OF.
Mon 17 Jun 2019 11:05 AM by Jeninii
I really enjoyed the NF test and wish it would come back for good. We had some really nice Keep and tower fights. I think 1 fight at eras inner tower lasted for 1 hour 8 min we counted. I say NF all the way
Mon 17 Jun 2019 11:08 AM by zan
No thanks
Mon 17 Jun 2019 11:18 AM by eclipse2k
NF is awesome. Do it!
Mon 17 Jun 2019 11:24 AM by Gorgoroth
Estat wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 11:01 AM
Gorgoroth wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 8:48 AM
That said though, i think the stealth game was worse with NF than it is with OF. The area of interest you visit in NF as an assassin is smaller than it was with OF and those areas are really crowded by other stealthers so that either you look like a zerger as everyone adds on your opponent, or you get unstealthed for a team to unload on you.
What you describe sounds exactly like what I've experienced between amg and apk, on the way from amg to mmg and between mmg and mtk in OF.

I suppose there are plenty of bottlenecks in OF and NF, even if they are not as obvious in NF, compared to the Milegates.

The fights you can expect to get as a stealth (Assassin POV, as Archers may have a different perspective) are literally on bridges, and that 95% on a select few and just a handful of other obvious places. You can also expect the boat destinations are camped by several ppl, mostly stealth, waiting to perf you or litter you with arrows if you don’t jump off the boat ahead of time.

Other places are close to burning towers or keeps, but those are not that amazing, as you will have a buff disadvantage compared to your usual targets within a group, hence making assassinations suicide missions with an unlikely change of success.

In OF I found it easier to have decent one on ones. I like the fact that hibs have it easier to get to Emain with Keep porting enabled.
Improvements like those on the OF by the Server owners are really making OF in my opinion the better Frontiers, with goodies for everyone (at least from what I gathered from people I interacted ingame with).
Mon 17 Jun 2019 11:40 AM by xeet16
I avoided the frontier when the NF test first started. I wanted nothing to do with it. But then I did a little RvR here and there and gave it a fair chance. Admittedly: I didn't do much in large scale rvr so I can't speak much to that, but I have to say that it did start to grow on me.

My vote will be for OF, especially since the devs have introduced keep porting. If NF wins the vote and goes into place I would recommend one major change:

Reduce (or eliminate) towers. Especially the ones right next to keeps. I believe live did this. IMO: NF feels very clunky and there are just way to many places for people to turtle in a tower instead of being able to roam around freely and have the room for large open field battles.
Mon 17 Jun 2019 11:41 AM by lurker
Personally i think ill be voting for OF.

NF is great for keeps sure, but not something I'm really looking for.

As my play style tends more towards Small Man primarily (2-3 in grp) I can say it was a lot worse for me in NF. I think our grp had very few fights that were not added on almost instantly.

Whilst this was always an issue with OF, it seems exacerbated in NF. Hadriens / Odins were always reasonably good to find small man fights in but NF was more running / higher chance of getting zerged/added as far as our experience went over the last week.

If the community came together and EV became a small man zone, or something similar, than it could work. It seems like it would be a natural fit. But EV seemed dead for the most part, just the odd solo running through or zerg full. But currently in NF it seemed to be: roam empty zones OR zerg OR roam overpopulated zones and get zerged.

I had an entire zerg of mids (like 4-5 fg) chase me solo all the way across EV from mid gate to the tower at alb gate before they moved off towards emain. I came back into EV solo and got instantly smashed by them a few mins later due to me taking the wrong turn round a corner. These things happened in OF, but at least the super zergs were contained to emain for the most part.

I imagine NF will win the vote as most people zerg/keep take here and in a voting system the majority rule!
Mon 17 Jun 2019 11:58 AM by ESR211
I wish we could have NF (which is beautiful) with OF style mechanics....

All that would be necessary is giving 2 portal keeps to each realm in their opposing lands...
For instance give Beno and Berk to mids and hibs permanently, allow port to beno and berk and destroy all towers for those keeps.
Do that for each realm respectively, no more boating BS, still have instant action similar to OF.
Mon 17 Jun 2019 11:58 AM by IamKaia
Please don't bring back NF, i find it terrible, thank you

@server admins: past daoc freeshards all have one thing in common: they all end up dying because of divisive changes that end up splintering the community. Even if you end up losing 10% pop over this rather heavy change, it will be another long term blow to your server following the pop you've already been losing over pet/buffs/ra changes.
Mon 17 Jun 2019 12:12 PM by The Maddog
Halcyon702 wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 7:58 AM
Live has NF

And this server has a population. Get over it.

NF is way better than OF.
Mon 17 Jun 2019 12:13 PM by kratoxin
OF, or peace out boy scout i'd rather go to live to play NF and pay 15$/month if it swaps, and knowing i wont have my life wasted on toons i'll just lose in the mere future here. population over there has well over 100 each realm during week now, and near 200 on weekends... well worth my 15$/m to go back now, if worse comes to worse.
Mon 17 Jun 2019 12:22 PM by Hailie
Turt wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 5:12 AM
With the NF maps duos, smallmans, 8s, were able to get around easily and have enough room to actually maneuver and get real fights. Bring back NF! It will only help the population and give us more stuff to do and more stuff to fight. It’s hard to go back to OF after giving us NF like that. Pleeeeaase.

+1
Mon 17 Jun 2019 2:17 PM by inoeth
logged in, got fcked by fg stealthers at mmg, logged out ....
bring back NF!
Mon 17 Jun 2019 2:37 PM by Fugax
ESR211 wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 11:58 AM
I wish we could have NF (which is beautiful) with OF style mechanics....

All that would be necessary is giving 2 portal keeps to each realm in their opposing lands...
For instance give Beno and Berk to mids and hibs permanently, allow port to beno and berk and destroy all towers for those keeps.
Do that for each realm respectively, no more boating BS, still have instant action similar to OF.

Some dumb ass will try and break port regardless. I saw it last week. Mids had Berk, and hibs had eras. Either or spent the majority of there efforts to break bold port or beno. reason? Unknown, as the fights would have been very engaging. People don't think...
Mon 17 Jun 2019 3:11 PM by Turt
any of you who are begging for Old Frontiers are either zergers, stealthers, or people who just like camping at a milegate. This game was not made for INSTA-ACTION. if you want to mindlessly go kill things immediately go play SMITE or something. With OF the zones are to small, simply put. If we continue with OF I absolutely guarantee that almost every 8 man guild and small-man guild who cares about this game will stop playing. It boggles my mind how people want to have OF, i mean literally all you guys do is sit there at the milegate in emain and wait for people to gank or wait to zerg.

Now I am not against zerging or stealthers, but won't you guys have much more fun in NF where you have much more keeps / towers to take and bridges to camp? at least the bridges we actually have a chance of getting to the docks. If you try to go through the milegate in Emain in OF you are 85% of the time going to get ganked or zerged upon.

come on guys. really.
Mon 17 Jun 2019 3:23 PM by phaise
Yes to NF
Best grouping and solo action I've had on Phoenix to date.
Mon 17 Jun 2019 3:30 PM by Turt
phaise wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 3:23 PM
Yes to NF
Best grouping and solo action I've had on Phoenix to date.

I very much agree
Mon 17 Jun 2019 3:43 PM by Shamissa
Yes to NF!!!!
Mon 17 Jun 2019 3:45 PM by inky2019
NO to NF it sucks for this size server
Mon 17 Jun 2019 3:47 PM by inoeth
Turt wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 3:11 PM
any of you who are begging for Old Frontiers are either zergers, stealthers, or people who just like camping at a milegate. This game was not made for INSTA-ACTION. if you want to mindlessly go kill things immediately go play SMITE or something. With OF the zones are to small, simply put. If we continue with OF I absolutely guarantee that almost every 8 man guild and small-man guild who cares about this game will stop playing. It boggles my mind how people want to have OF, i mean literally all you guys do is sit there at the milegate in emain and wait for people to gank or wait to zerg.

Now I am not against zerging or stealthers, but won't you guys have much more fun in NF where you have much more keeps / towers to take and bridges to camp? at least the bridges we actually have a chance of getting to the docks. If you try to go through the milegate in Emain in OF you are 85% of the time going to get ganked or zerged upon.

come on guys. really.

i doubt mainly stealthers want OF, i play stealthers and i want to have NF back! that maybe a handful jerks (mainly albs imo) who like camping milegates and want to ruin rvr fun for everyone else....
Mon 17 Jun 2019 3:50 PM by Ashenspire
This server is more than big enough for NF.

In fact, it's too big for OF as is evident by the inability to find anything that isn't a Zerg, whether it be visis or stealthers.

Everyone's biggest complaints is they get run over by bigger groups. Solos get run over by small man, small man by 8man, 8man by zergs, etc.

Spread out the action outside of the murder hallway in Emain between AMG and MMG and that alleviates much of the problem.
Mon 17 Jun 2019 4:09 PM by inky2019
NF will kill this server. We will have another Uthgard in a matter of weeks.
Now I do think that if occasionally NF was done as an event the population might stick around just my opinion.
Mon 17 Jun 2019 4:11 PM by cere2
inky2019 wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 4:09 PM
NF will kill this server. We will have another Uthgard in a matter of weeks.
Now I do think that if occasionally NF was done as an event the population might stick around just my opinion.

And you haven't even seen the test results but you know that server is dead in weeks with NF....what if.....you are the minority?
Mon 17 Jun 2019 4:12 PM by coufourier
le classic est super , pour nous les anciens de 2002 ..... NF a tuer l'officiel , avec les ML , cata , labyrinthe ...laisser nous dans la nostalgie , et les combats perpétuels .... merci
NF i n'est pas bien pour moi

jeanclaude scout
Mon 17 Jun 2019 4:16 PM by Sardar
OF FOR REVEUR !!!!!!!!!!!
Mon 17 Jun 2019 4:21 PM by Wooshh
I want nf
Mon 17 Jun 2019 4:31 PM by Tree
Well I actually liked the gameplay in NF more, seemed to me to be more dynamic. The worldbuild and graphic design of OF is nicer though. The NF keeps look really generic and bland and the landscape is boring too.
If its at all possible maybe try to design an new map that includes feedback from the playerbase.
Mon 17 Jun 2019 5:11 PM by xeus
OF Please, that is all.
Mon 17 Jun 2019 5:32 PM by Dfellinger
pleeeeaaseee NF! its just way better than beeing camped in OF emain at wall or finding no groups at all in OG or HW cause everyone is zerging around in hib.
nf everybody can find his place to be..
Mon 17 Jun 2019 5:33 PM by nyght999
How about no. No, no, no and before you say it again no. NF is trash.
Mon 17 Jun 2019 5:59 PM by teiloh
I /stat playered everyone supporting NF in /advice.

Almost all had 2-4k rps an hour and 50-80% of that was from keep welfare RPs.

That's not the game I want. I don't want 20-30 minutes between fights, I don't want to win a fight and have half their numbers run into one of the dozens of towers and keeps on the map. I don't want to roam mind-numbingly boring, featureless, homogenized landscapes fighting against the odds to find that handful of other players who also have no idea wtf I am.
Mon 17 Jun 2019 6:06 PM by Bruschetta
I prefer NF, enough said
Mon 17 Jun 2019 6:12 PM by keen
The only small men action I saw was, small men getting chased by bigger small men or full grps through 5zones and then suiciding with a dive. Great fun /ponder
Mon 17 Jun 2019 6:18 PM by cere2
teiloh wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 5:59 PM
I /stat playered everyone supporting NF in /advice.

Almost all had 2-4k rps an hour and 50-80% of that was from keep welfare RPs.

That's not the game I want. I don't want 20-30 minutes between fights, I don't want to win a fight and have half their numbers run into one of the dozens of towers and keeps on the map. I don't want to roam mind-numbingly boring, featureless, homogenized landscapes fighting against the odds to find that handful of other players who also have no idea wtf I am.

I /stat playered everyone supporting OF in /advice.

Almost all had 2-4k rps an hour and 50-80% of that was from keep welfare RPs.

That's not the game I want. I don't want 20-30 minutes between fights, I don't want to win a fight and have half their numbers run into one of the keeps on the map. I don't want to roam mind-numbingly boring, featureless, homogenized landscapes fighting against the odds to find that handful of other players who also have no idea wtf I am.

Removed tower's since none in OF, but see...I can say the same exact lying trash about OF players. Why not just come out and say all players that support NF suck at this game? Unreal...
Mon 17 Jun 2019 6:45 PM by mattymc
teiloh wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 5:59 PM
I /stat playered everyone supporting NF in /advice.

Almost all had 2-4k rps an hour and 50-80% of that was from keep welfare RPs.

That's not the game I want. I don't want 20-30 minutes between fights, I don't want to win a fight and have half their numbers run into one of the dozens of towers and keeps on the map. I don't want to roam mind-numbingly boring, featureless, homogenized landscapes fighting against the odds to find that handful of other players who also have no idea wtf I am.

So you want, what --- hours between fights, people actively avoiding fights to get PvE RP's <it took about 10 min for the PvE king of BG's to PVE all the keeps, notice how that Didnt happen in NF and actual FIGHTS took place> --- sorry, if you think the game is actually about fighting for your RP's, NF is 1000000000X better --- if you prefer the GAHERIS model....
Mon 17 Jun 2019 7:01 PM by vionu
It all starts with your base line. The main success of this server was the call for CLASSIC server. That included OF. If NF is made permanent, you will see a great deal of players stop playing. On top of that, if I was a betting man, you will see many folks change realms to Hibernia as they are the realm that will benefit the most of the constant keep and tower fights. This will make the other realms less likely to participate in the Hibernia meat grinder that will be keep / tower fights. So the down ward spiral will begin and continual. I hate that NF was even done as a test, now no matter what you go with, you will lose players. It is just human nature for people to take their ball and stop playing when they are not picked. OF has my vote, and sadly I am one of those that will take my ball and may stop playing if NF is picked. If I do still play, I will move over to Hibernia to have a bit of Over powered fun before the population starts to decline to the point of it becoming boring to run from keep to keep / tower to tower. Of course this is all my opinion and I don't have a crystal ball. But, I do have some historical data of other servers which went the same or similar paths.
Mon 17 Jun 2019 7:11 PM by teiloh
cere2 wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 6:18 PM
Removed tower's since none in OF, but see...I can say the same exact lying trash about OF players. Why not just come out and say all players that support NF suck at this game? Unreal...

https://herald.playphoenix.online/c/Ceremone
https://herald.playphoenix.online/c/Cerebeblades

My point has nothing to do with whether or not you're a good player. It's about how many fights you are actively finding/involved in an hour.

Most people do not like waiting 20-30 minutes between fights. It's just mind-numbing.
Mon 17 Jun 2019 7:13 PM by teiloh
mattymc wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 6:45 PM
teiloh wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 5:59 PM
I /stat playered everyone supporting NF in /advice.

Almost all had 2-4k rps an hour and 50-80% of that was from keep welfare RPs.

That's not the game I want. I don't want 20-30 minutes between fights, I don't want to win a fight and have half their numbers run into one of the dozens of towers and keeps on the map. I don't want to roam mind-numbingly boring, featureless, homogenized landscapes fighting against the odds to find that handful of other players who also have no idea wtf I am.

So you want, what --- hours between fights, people actively avoiding fights to get PvE RP's <it took about 10 min for the PvE king of BG's to PVE all the keeps, notice how that Didnt happen in NF and actual FIGHTS took place> --- sorry, if you think the game is actually about fighting for your RP's, NF is 1000000000X better --- if you prefer the GAHERIS model....

I've been getting 15-18k an hour at least, every night, every time I've logged on in OF except for maybe 2 nights.

Only time we got more than that in NF was killing people in keep stand-offs. Really boring. And then 50% of those rps came from keep ticks.
Mon 17 Jun 2019 7:36 PM by Boomslang
Im in favor of NF...much more dynamic, taking a keep is more fun and challenging . Lots of rvr generated on multiple realms, not just in Emain. NF wins my vote.
Mon 17 Jun 2019 7:53 PM by cere2
teiloh wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 7:11 PM
cere2 wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 6:18 PM
Removed tower's since none in OF, but see...I can say the same exact lying trash about OF players. Why not just come out and say all players that support NF suck at this game? Unreal...

https://herald.playphoenix.online/c/Ceremone
https://herald.playphoenix.online/c/Cerebeblades

My point has nothing to do with whether or not you're a good player. It's about how many fights you are actively finding/involved in an hour.

Most people do not like waiting 20-30 minutes between fights. It's just mind-numbing.

Once again man you post stuff without actually thinking about it.
A few questions I have for you. How long was I at my keyboard while logged into the game the last 3 nights?
How many nights was I able to play during last week and in those nights how many hours did I have actively pursuing a fight?
Do you think it's possible not to base rp/hour on someone who might have a RL and not continuously be active?
I had multiple times where I just went AFK inside a keep or tower because I was doing RL stuff.
Try not making points about someone when you don't even know 10% of the facts....sheesh
Mon 17 Jun 2019 8:46 PM by teiloh
cere2 wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 7:53 PM
Once again man you post stuff without actually thinking about it.
A few questions I have for you. How long was I at my keyboard while logged into the game the last 3 nights?
How many nights was I able to play during last week and in those nights how many hours did I have actively pursuing a fight?
Do you think it's possible not to base rp/hour on someone who might have a RL and not continuously be active?
I had multiple times where I just went AFK inside a keep or tower because I was doing RL stuff.
Try not making points about someone when you don't even know 10% of the facts....sheesh

That's exactly the point ... most people want to be able to find fights within 5-10 minutes, not afk and come back in short bursts, which is rewarded by tower/bridge setups.
Mon 17 Jun 2019 8:59 PM by cere2
teiloh wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 8:46 PM
cere2 wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 7:53 PM
Once again man you post stuff without actually thinking about it.
A few questions I have for you. How long was I at my keyboard while logged into the game the last 3 nights?
How many nights was I able to play during last week and in those nights how many hours did I have actively pursuing a fight?
Do you think it's possible not to base rp/hour on someone who might have a RL and not continuously be active?
I had multiple times where I just went AFK inside a keep or tower because I was doing RL stuff.
Try not making points about someone when you don't even know 10% of the facts....sheesh

That's exactly the point ... most people want to be able to find fights within 5-10 minutes, not afk and come back in short bursts, which is rewarded by tower/bridge setups.

What? That makes no sense. I was able to find action during NF quite a bit when I actually had time to go out and look for it. I wandered around DC bridges/docks, Mid took Crim, found action between Crim and Cruachon. Hibs took Surs, found action between Surs and Bold...action in NF was easy to find.
I find it takes a lot longer to find action in OF, unless you are...
#1 Alb or Mid that can port to Emain....
#2 Are a speed class and can port to Brief and get to Emain in 3 minutes.
#3 Are grouped with a speed class and can port to Brief and get to Emain in 3 minutes.

I underlined a common denominator here...as 90% of action is in Emain...
Mon 17 Jun 2019 9:02 PM by BaldEagle
I had no problem finding action as a stealther. And when there is an enemy port in a realm, it is easy to pick people off. The only time bridges and docks are the only place for a stealther is when every realm has all their ports, which will most often not be the case.
Mon 17 Jun 2019 9:38 PM by Lightsout1
NF please. OF is so static and boring.
Mon 17 Jun 2019 9:44 PM by Decimuss
I vote OF
Mon 17 Jun 2019 10:26 PM by Hwatever
I speak as one who had never played NF before, who fled Live on the announcement of ToA.

I was seeing a lot of regular small/8man action in OG, the kind of stuff you hope for going into Hadrian's in OF (which was as often dead as it is locked down by a Hib BG at the MMG).

Overall, it seems much more friendly to non-zerglings. You have much more varied terrain, mazes, etc. to dodge THE SWARM! You have boats that can land you anywhere along the long axis of any realm. You aren't stuck running through a single doorway. Towers to duck into when outnumbered. Massive siege engines to smash large zergs of PvE door breakers and their 'shroom farms.

And no more single gateway everyone has to travel, thus no more "Well, enemy BGs at both realms' MGs, and we don't have numbers. Practice getting farmed or no RvR today" scenarios.

You would have to work with the Emain zerglings who don't want to predict good ports, or learn how to effectively communicate and chase the action; as it's their game, too. I would expect, though, that they would eventually decide on a spot that worked as the go-to for folks who just want to endlessly join in large predictable blobs to smash back and forth (EV seems right for that).

As it is, NF supports more play styles, better. All the problems I saw leveled against NF are bigger problems in OF. The only issue of substance I can see is that taking actual keeps in NF is much harder. This can be both better and worse; taking or removing a foothold in a realm can be much harder/take a larger force/require more planning and a longer process...but it also removes the daily routine of "they took all our keeps, now we have to take them back".

It also brings RvR into keep takes. OF keep turnovers and retakes has become, as often as not, a dry, tiring, bloodless extension of PvE that I, and many RvR focused players, don't want. Have grown to hate, even. I want messy sieges against actual players, and NF sieges were giving me the messiest.

And if I just want to take things with a smaller group, boating to empty towers and taking them is actually faster and easier than hitting an OF keep, can't be made literally impossible by a sufficient number of people camping 20 square feet of real estate, and nets you about the same reward. It's actually got better features for small-capture-parties-turned-defenders, too, with the palintones and oil.

My zerg experience in NF was as good or better than my zerg experience in OF; and non-zerg experiences were not only better, but much more available.

I'll vote yes for NF.
Mon 17 Jun 2019 10:43 PM by Anelyn77
NF 100%, even if I voted BY MISTAKE for OF, because was getting spammed by pms, guild chat and disco for being away for 2 days on hib. Our mid alliance will vote NF in it's majority. OF is boring, keeps are bugged, mile gates chokepoints are so easily exploited by good groups / zergs. It's not fun.
Mon 17 Jun 2019 10:43 PM by NoxiD20
Yay! NF all the way.
Mon 17 Jun 2019 11:03 PM by cere2
Hwatever wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 10:26 PM
I speak as one who had never played NF before, who fled Live on the announcement of ToA.

I was seeing a lot of regular small/8man action in OG, the kind of stuff you hope for going into Hadrian's in OF (which was as often dead as it is locked down by a Hib BG at the MMG).

Overall, it seems much more friendly to non-zerglings. You have much more varied terrain, mazes, etc. to dodge THE SWARM! You have boats that can land you anywhere along the long axis of any realm. You aren't stuck running through a single doorway. Towers to duck into when outnumbered. Massive siege engines to smash large zergs of PvE door breakers and their 'shroom farms.

And no more single gateway everyone has to travel, thus no more "Well, enemy BGs at both realms' MGs, and we don't have numbers. Practice getting farmed or no RvR today" scenarios.

You would have to work with the Emain zerglings who don't want to predict good ports, or learn how to effectively communicate and chase the action; as it's their game, too. I would expect, though, that they would eventually decide on a spot that worked as the go-to for folks who just want to endlessly join in large predictable blobs to smash back and forth (EV seems right for that).

As it is, NF supports more play styles, better. All the problems I saw leveled against NF are bigger problems in OF. The only issue of substance I can see is that taking actual keeps in NF is much harder. This can be both better and worse; taking or removing a foothold in a realm can be much harder/take a larger force/require more planning and a longer process...but it also removes the daily routine of "they took all our keeps, now we have to take them back".

It also brings RvR into keep takes. OF keep turnovers and retakes has become, as often as not, a dry, tiring, bloodless extension of PvE that I, and many RvR focused players, don't want. Have grown to hate, even. I want messy sieges against actual players, and NF sieges were giving me the messiest.

And if I just want to take things with a smaller group, boating to empty towers and taking them is actually faster and easier than hitting an OF keep, can't be made literally impossible by a sufficient number of people camping 20 square feet of real estate, and nets you about the same reward. It's actually got better features for small-capture-parties-turned-defenders, too, with the palintones and oil.

My zerg experience in NF was as good or better than my zerg experience in OF; and non-zerg experiences were not only better, but much more available.

I'll vote yes for NF.

Probably the best post I have read about this issue yet. Well said.
Tue 18 Jun 2019 12:20 AM by djegu
I won't vote, I liked NF because it was refreshing, but let's be honest, in few month we will ask OF back because we will be tired of NF, it's human nature.
Tue 18 Jun 2019 1:18 AM by diddly31
yes for NF
Tue 18 Jun 2019 1:50 AM by Urzawolf
I prefer Old Frontiers. Is this where I vote?
Tue 18 Jun 2019 6:58 AM by Sepplord
Urzawolf wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Jun 2019 1:50 AM
I prefer Old Frontiers. Is this where I vote?

no, type /vote ingame, like the chat tells you everytime you login or zone
Tue 18 Jun 2019 12:22 PM by Bayldan11
Bring NF back. I was kinda apprehensive about the NF week and wasn't gonna participate and just wait for OF to be back after the test. I actually went out and rvred the last 2 days and had a blast. The little tweaks to how the system works like holes in walls and no tower razing, is best thing that you all impimented. My vote bring it back
Tue 18 Jun 2019 12:25 PM by Ceen
It's pretty simple, if vote is NF everyone rerolls Hibernia.
Tue 18 Jun 2019 10:55 PM by Duukar
RvR has died since NF went away.. Bring it back ASAP
Wed 19 Jun 2019 2:23 PM by Shamissa
Very true, please bring it back NF ❤️
Thu 20 Jun 2019 12:21 AM by stinsfire
Duukar wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Jun 2019 10:55 PM
RvR has died since NF went away.. Bring it back ASAP

What do you mean it has died? It is as active and enterntaining as always! I did RvR for 3 hours just right now. Hibs PvDoored whole mid with massive zerg, so we retook mid, hibs went alb and took all alb keeps instead of defending, we then went to DC to break hib RP bonus and instead of defending, hibs started raiding mid keeps again.

Made 30k RP, didn't die once, saw more doors than enemies.. All hail OF. I love keepflipping. So much fun.... not

If we stick with OF, I might actually try Live and swallow all the CL, ML etc. bullshit
Thu 20 Jun 2019 6:28 AM by Sepplord
stinsfire wrote: ↑
Thu 20 Jun 2019 12:21 AM
Duukar wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Jun 2019 10:55 PM
RvR has died since NF went away.. Bring it back ASAP

What do you mean it has died? It is as active and enterntaining as always! I did RvR for 3 hours just right now. Hibs PvDoored whole mid with massive zerg, so we retook mid, hibs went alb and took all alb keeps instead of defending, we then went to DC to break hib RP bonus and instead of defending, hibs started raiding mid keeps again.

Made 30k RP, didn't die once, saw more doors than enemies.. All hail OF. I love keepflipping. So much fun.... not

If we stick with OF, I might actually try Live and swallow all the CL, ML etc. bullshit

that's a thing i was wondering about though....

i regularly see BG's advertising for keep retake in midgard...while hibernia has HUGE RP boni. Wouldn't it make more sense to break that first?
Thu 20 Jun 2019 7:13 AM by Turano
stinsfire wrote: ↑
Thu 20 Jun 2019 12:21 AM
Duukar wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Jun 2019 10:55 PM
RvR has died since NF went away.. Bring it back ASAP

What do you mean it has died? It is as active and enterntaining as always! I did RvR for 3 hours just right now. Hibs PvDoored whole mid with massive zerg, so we retook mid, hibs went alb and took all alb keeps instead of defending, we then went to DC to break hib RP bonus and instead of defending, hibs started raiding mid keeps again.

Made 30k RP, didn't die once, saw more doors than enemies.. All hail OF. I love keepflipping. So much fun.... not

If we stick with OF, I might actually try Live and swallow all the CL, ML etc. bullshit
You know, there seems to be at least 2 partys involved in the evading in your story. Hibs took your keeps in mid, you didn't care defending them.
When the hibs were finished in mid they went Alb. What did you do? You took back empty mid keeps instead of looking for hib hibzerg in alb.
After you finished that did you go after the hibs that started retaking the mid keeps? No you go hib and raid keeps there.

So when in your story did you guys go and Look for a fight against the hibs? Not once, you were waiting for them to come to you. So stop complaining that they try to evade confrontation when you do exactly the same
Thu 20 Jun 2019 10:51 AM by Norad
After playing OF a lot and trying my best to rvr during the NF test one thing that was very obvious to me was that both systems can potentially work but more changes need to be done. The overall theme of problems that people have with OF is the keeps are more boring and the milegate camping, if something like adding NF keeps to OF and either removing MG's or adding some teleporter to the center zone(jamt, pennine, breif) with a 2-3min ceremony in the PK it would change these problems. Good things was a more central population of areas for people to rvr in when it's non EU pt(emain+breif) and nonstop keep zergs going around taking keeps/fighting each other.

Main complaints i have seen from people is that in NF the action is too spread out, people dont go to one area to fight so you need to travel a lot to try and find fights(aside from maybe some small man/solo action near docks/bridges im not sure about this). You basically had to hover around the zerg while they're fighting another realm huddled/hiding inside a keep, rarely you had open field fights with zergs. For 8mans you basically had to beg people or annoy them to get them to go to EV to fight, aside from those times it was dead. Some changes to help NF would be to add a similar port system to EV that live has so more small man/group action can be formed there, having faster travel boats so people can get around a bit faster.

One overall theme that both frontiers have problems with is the fact the realm timer is still too big, one thing this server should look at is the live system of a realm switch timer, have it be 4hours if you have gained rps and no timer if you have not. This will let people log onto one realm to pve, or try to find groups and they dont succeed they can go and try another realm to try and form an rvr grp or an xp group. This will also prevent people from realm hopping fast to the bigger zerg.

tldr: both frontiers have the potential to being good but both still need to be worked on.
Thu 20 Jun 2019 5:16 PM by stinsfire
Turano wrote: ↑
Thu 20 Jun 2019 7:13 AM
stinsfire wrote: ↑
Thu 20 Jun 2019 12:21 AM
Duukar wrote: ↑
Tue 18 Jun 2019 10:55 PM
RvR has died since NF went away.. Bring it back ASAP

What do you mean it has died? It is as active and enterntaining as always! I did RvR for 3 hours just right now. Hibs PvDoored whole mid with massive zerg, so we retook mid, hibs went alb and took all alb keeps instead of defending, we then went to DC to break hib RP bonus and instead of defending, hibs started raiding mid keeps again.

Made 30k RP, didn't die once, saw more doors than enemies.. All hail OF. I love keepflipping. So much fun.... not

If we stick with OF, I might actually try Live and swallow all the CL, ML etc. bullshit
You know, there seems to be at least 2 partys involved in the evading in your story. Hibs took your keeps in mid, you didn't care defending them.

I have no clue. I logged in when all mid keeps have been taken, just like most days. Today I logged in and all mid keeps and half the alb keeps were taken by hib. Plus its pretty hard to defend as 50 vs 100+. Mids seem to prefer running in circles in emain and playing mindless three way team death match, hibs seem to prefer PvDoor. About 100 mids in emain and we couldn't make them join the bg. Both of these things I havent seen in NF. There was no emain to constantly bash each others head in on a map that is basically an accumlation of choke points and people actually fought over keeps for 2 hours, used strategy to cut off teleports etc.

When the hibs were finished in mid they went Alb. What did you do? You took back empty mid keeps instead of looking for hib hibzerg in alb.
Of course we do that because Hib had 20% RP bonus and we are not going to donate RPs to a force that outnumbers us at least twice. And since we also want DF we will of course retake our keeps before defending the keeps from other realms.

After you finished that did you go after the hibs that started retaking the mid keeps? No you go hib and raid keeps there.

Of course, because we don't want to donate RP to a realm with 20% rp bonus while we have no chance fighting them. Maybe our BG went to mid after that to fight them, but I had to log out after we took DC.

So when in your story did you guys go and Look for a fight against the hibs? Not once, you were waiting for them to come to you. So stop complaining that they try to evade confrontation when you do exactly the same

In our ally we recently talked about that and a good bunch of us decided not to reraid keeps anymore unless we want to do some raid in DF. Every day you log in and the whole realm map is green because pilz raids keeps 16 hours a day with at least 100 people. And I have experienced him showing up to a keep with like 30-40 defenders in them and turning around and running to another keep. We assumed the keep he would go next, he showed up and saw that it was defended and went to another keep. All we will do is take a hib keep to take their bonus and attack Pilz instead. His constant 100+ zerg vs undefendable OF keeps makes it pointless to even retake keeps.. it just gives him more RP to PvDoor farm all day. OF keeps are just way to easy to raid, too hard to defend due to being extremely small and as soon as the outer door is open you have like a dozen TWF in the tower, there are no side entries to sneak in and no port from keep to keep to quickly shift defenders to another keep. (Implementing this would make OF much better). My point is OF keeps are too fast and too easy to take and nearly impossible to defend so it encourages this stupid keepflipping behaviour. In NF I never ever saw whole map taken by hib, because you could teleport to another keep if they decided to run to an empty keep. By the time they arrive there, the keep will have defenders in it.
Thu 20 Jun 2019 11:00 PM by liftoff
NO TO BRINGING BACK TERRIBLE NF.

OF (old frontiers) all the way for me and my 5 friends who play every weekend together. We all played from the first day live started, have a very good understanding of all the game mechanics since we have played virtually every character and class available and all forms of RvR and we all agree that NF started the downfall of the game, with TOA the final nail in the coffin for live - which has no rvr now to speak of.

The biggest issue I see with NF is too large of an RvR space for the much smaller population. I remember the funnest days of live was the old emain battles, by OF design you have a limited number of gates that channel RvR through, making it MUCH easier to find combat without getting bored and loosing people.

Also with NF having 105 freakin' keeps/towers to have to keep track of as compared to 21 for OF, makes NF utterly ridiculous for the average player, this tends to lead to a heavy imbalance of keep/tower sieges, there is CONSTANTLY another tower or keep needing sieged, and frequently results in 5 times the time needed to take one keep/tower system in NF as compared to only 20% of the time to take the one keep in OF. The average player doesn't have all freakin' day to siege. The only people IMHO who want NF back are the hardcore gamers who have basically all day to play, with no other real life responsibilities. NF killed the game for people who do not enjoy siege form of RvR.


So no, if you don't like OF, then you are perfectly welcome to go back to live that has it, but please stop whining. moaning and complaining about what the DEVS have graciously provided you here for free. Let's not let a small group of loud players screw this up for the silent majority here who are appreciative of the wonderful fantasy world we have been given. Thanks
Thu 20 Jun 2019 11:23 PM by liftoff
I really can't believe we're even having this discussion about bringing back NF which was one of the nails in the coffins of live and I fear it will be the death of this server as well if it's implemented. It's simply too big to find any pvp action other than keep/tower takes - and many do not like sieging all damn day - with NF having 5 times the number of keeps/towers (105) as compared to 21 keeps with OF.

If you look at the history of MMORPG's and shards, they all have one thing in common, they have a small group of whiny babies who aren't ever satisfied with anything who bitch and moan and complain about everything - they listen to these people and then expanded too big for their player base and died. NF has underwater combat potential also, nothing worse than having to take one of the boats to get to a keep under siege and having a camper on the bottom of the river kill you before you can target him in 3D space.

This shard needs to stick with OF, 7 keeps per zone, and 2D combat to survive, trust me on this. Stop listening to the whiners who will never be happy with what they are given for free. Thanks
Fri 21 Jun 2019 2:43 AM by Azuell
liftoff wrote: ↑
Thu 20 Jun 2019 11:23 PM
I really can't believe we're even having this discussion about bringing back NF which was one of the nails in the coffins of live and I fear it will be the death of this server as well if it's implemented. It's simply too big to find any pvp action other than keep/tower takes - and many do not like sieging all damn day - with NF having 5 times the number of keeps/towers (105) as compared to 21 keeps with OF.

If you look at the history of MMORPG's and shards, they all have one thing in common, they have a small group of whiny babies who aren't ever satisfied with anything who bitch and moan and complain about everything - they listen to these people and then expanded too big for their player base and died. NF has underwater combat potential also, nothing worse than having to take one of the boats to get to a keep under siege and having a camper on the bottom of the river kill you before you can target him in 3D space.

This shard needs to stick with OF, 7 keeps per zone, and 2D combat to survive, trust me on this. Stop listening to the whiners who will never be happy with what they are given for free. Thanks

Speaking of annoying whiners, was it really necessary to reword your first post and post it again 20 minutes later? Your condescending posts are just as bad as the people who whine about everything.

How do you know OF holds the silent majority? You act like the percentage that prefer NF vs OF isn't even close. Why do you think they are having a in-game vote?
Fri 21 Jun 2019 3:07 AM by cere2
So no, if you don't like OF, then you are perfectly welcome to go back to live that has it, but please stop whining. moaning and complaining about what the DEVS have graciously provided you here for free. Let's not let a small group of loud players screw this up for the silent majority here who are appreciative of the wonderful fantasy world we have been given. Thanks
[/quote]

I removed the other worthless stuff that you posted about what killed Live. No factual evidence to support your claim since population actually went up after NF and ToA. Just your personal opinion which is not backed up with actual facts....

Beyond that, your last statement is not well thought out either.
#1 You have no idea if the majority like NF or OF.
#2 You say if we like NF we can go back to Live? How about if you like OF you can go play Uthgard.
Fri 21 Jun 2019 7:19 AM by warblade
I was pro OF before this week of testing, but after OF came back I found that I miss NF.

I voted NF - Lets make NF GREAT AGAIN.
Fri 21 Jun 2019 7:44 AM by Anelyn77
NF was more dynamic, OF is more static (chokepoints always present and easily abused by good 8m or zergs). I don't mind either, but if I had to choose I would go with NF.

/Bnotashamed + Aicha = LOVE
Fri 21 Jun 2019 7:45 AM by Turano
warblade wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 7:19 AM
I voted NF - Lets make NF GREAT AGAIN.
Again does imply that it would have been great already sometime in the past
Fri 21 Jun 2019 8:21 AM by warblade
Turano wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 7:45 AM
warblade wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 7:19 AM
I voted NF - Lets make NF GREAT AGAIN.
Again does imply that it would have been great already sometime in the past

I reject your reality and substitute my own
Fri 21 Jun 2019 8:51 AM by Stoertebecker
cere2 wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 3:07 AM
I removed the other worthless stuff that you posted about what killed Live. No factual evidence to support your claim since population actually went up after NF and ToA. Just your personal opinion which is not backed up with actual facts....

Beyond that, your last statement is not well thought out either.
#1 You have no idea if the majority like NF or OF.
#2 You say if we like NF we can go back to Live? How about if you like OF you can go play Uthgard.

Instead of writing and wasting time you could log in and feed my bd with some rp`s, how about that?

And if you see Shurtugal, send him my greetings. We grouped sometimes on Gareth back in 2005/6.
Still missing Sneakyleaky :/
Fri 21 Jun 2019 1:22 PM by Azuell
liftoff wrote: ↑
Thu 20 Jun 2019 11:00 PM
NO TO BRINGING BACK TERRIBLE NF.


So no, if you don't like OF, then you are perfectly welcome to go back to live that has it, but please stop whining. moaning and complaining about what the DEVS have graciously provided you here for free. Let's not let a small group of loud players screw this up for the silent majority here who are appreciative of the wonderful fantasy world we have been given. Thanks



Silent majority

Fri 21 Jun 2019 1:46 PM by Hwatever
liftoff wrote: ↑
Thu 20 Jun 2019 11:23 PM
I really can't believe we're even having this discussion about bringing back NF which was one of the nails in the coffins of live and I fear it will be the death of this server as well if it's implemented. It's simply too big to find any pvp action other than keep/tower takes - and many do not like sieging all damn day - with NF having 5 times the number of keeps/towers (105) as compared to 21 keeps with OF.

Just spent all of yesterday sieging...because the Hibs under Pilz spent all yesterday sieging.

Difference is, when Pilz hit NF, he took a few easy to flip towers and generally got wiped challenging NF keeps. What I saw in NF was that taking keeps generally didn't happen without a major, well planned effort and lots of side action to set it up. The keep siege itself was usually the finale to a small campaign, and far easier to thwart than execute.

You can flip OF keeps all day without a fight. Happens every day right now. NF keeps are an open invitation to bloody conflict. All the nooks and crannies, the size of it, the siege engines, make it so that about any number of defenders can inflict losses on any size of zerg; rather than OF, where a sufficient mass of semi-AFK PvDoorers can volley, TWF, GTAoE, and pet spam every square inch and conveniently and thoughtlessly scour away anything but a similar size zerg.

liftoff wrote: ↑
Thu 20 Jun 2019 11:23 PM
NF has underwater combat potential also, nothing worse than having to take one of the boats to get to a keep under siege and having a camper on the bottom of the river kill you before you can target him in 3D space.

OF has underwater combat potential as well, as we were experiencing weeks ago; and was ended by insta-drowning; also weeks ago.

liftoff wrote: ↑
Thu 20 Jun 2019 11:23 PM
This shard needs to stick with OF, 7 keeps per zone, and 2D combat to survive, trust me on this. Stop listening to the whiners who will never be happy with what they are given for free. Thanks

I'll remember to be grateful for our wonderful dev team and their faithful implementation of liftoff's vision of a classic server.
Fri 21 Jun 2019 2:09 PM by Runental
Hwatever wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 1:46 PM
liftoff wrote: ↑
Thu 20 Jun 2019 11:23 PM
I really can't believe we're even having this discussion about bringing back NF which was one of the nails in the coffins of live and I fear it will be the death of this server as well if it's implemented. It's simply too big to find any pvp action other than keep/tower takes - and many do not like sieging all damn day - with NF having 5 times the number of keeps/towers (105) as compared to 21 keeps with OF.

Just spent all of yesterday sieging...because the Hibs under Pilz spent all yesterday sieging.

Difference is, when Pilz hit NF, he took a few easy to flip towers and generally got wiped challenging NF keeps. What I saw in NF was that taking keeps generally didn't happen without a major, well planned effort and lots of side action to set it up. The keep siege itself was usually the finale to a small campaign, and far easier to thwart than execute.

You can flip OF keeps all day without a fight. Happens every day right now. NF keeps are an open invitation to bloody conflict. All the nooks and crannies, the size of it, the siege engines, make it so that about any number of defenders can inflict losses on any size of zerg; rather than OF, where a sufficient mass of semi-AFK PvDoorers can volley, TWF, GTAoE, and pet spam every square inch and conveniently and thoughtlessly scour away anything but a similar size zerg.

liftoff wrote: ↑
Thu 20 Jun 2019 11:23 PM
NF has underwater combat potential also, nothing worse than having to take one of the boats to get to a keep under siege and having a camper on the bottom of the river kill you before you can target him in 3D space.

OF has underwater combat potential as well, as we were experiencing weeks ago; and was ended by insta-drowning; also weeks ago.

liftoff wrote: ↑
Thu 20 Jun 2019 11:23 PM
This shard needs to stick with OF, 7 keeps per zone, and 2D combat to survive, trust me on this. Stop listening to the whiners who will never be happy with what they are given for free. Thanks

I'll remember to be grateful for our wonderful dev team and their faithful implementation of liftoff's vision of a classic server.


This guy has no idea anyway. Best example he did not log in to the test week or knew NF as it is now days. 105 towers/keeps was waaaay back 2008/09
when each keep had 4 towers.
Guys love to talk BS here where they have no clue about 🤣
Fri 21 Jun 2019 2:49 PM by Turano
Runental wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 2:09 PM
This guy has no idea anyway. Best example he did not log in to the test week or knew NF as it is now days. 105 towers/keeps was waaaay back 2008/09
when each keep had 4 towers.
Guys love to talk BS here where they have no clue about 🤣
How would you know if or how much I have tested last week? You have exactly 0 idea but I guess guys like you don't need facts when they mumble their nonsense
Fri 21 Jun 2019 2:55 PM by Azuell
Turano wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 2:49 PM
Runental wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 2:09 PM
This guy has no idea anyway. Best example he did not log in to the test week or knew NF as it is now days. 105 towers/keeps was waaaay back 2008/09
when each keep had 4 towers.
Guys love to talk BS here where they have no clue about 🤣
How would you know if or how much I have tested last week? You have exactly 0 idea but I guess guys like you don't need facts when they mumble their nonsense

Maybe try considering the fact he didn't even quote you...
Fri 21 Jun 2019 3:02 PM by Runental
Turano wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 2:49 PM
Runental wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 2:09 PM
This guy has no idea anyway. Best example he did not log in to the test week or knew NF as it is now days. 105 towers/keeps was waaaay back 2008/09
when each keep had 4 towers.
Guys love to talk BS here where they have no clue about 🤣
How would you know if or how much I have tested last week? You have exactly 0 idea but I guess guys like you don't need facts when they mumble their nonsense

No idea what's your problem, i did not quote you nor did I talk to you.
My post was according to the guy who still think we have 105 keeps and towers.

Go ahead thx
Fri 21 Jun 2019 3:09 PM by Turano
Runental wrote: ↑
Fri 21 Jun 2019 3:02 PM
No idea what's your problem, i did not quote you nor did I talk to you.
My post was according to the guy who still think we have 105 keeps and towers.

Go ahead thx
then my bad and sorry
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