Warden Endurance Reduction - Phoenix Freeshard

Will you be moving the Wardens Endurance Reduction line of spells back to Nurture ?

Fri 30 Mar 2018 7:24 PM by

gruenesschaf

Haven't discussed it yet. I opened an internal vote for it.

Fri 1 Jun 2018 9:39 AM by MongrelSun

What was the verdict ?

Fri 1 Jun 2018 11:57 AM by

Uthred

The staff voted No. Wardens already got a lot of buffs (det, cure disease/dot and better heals), thats why we decided to not implement this change.

Sat 2 Jun 2018 9:44 AM by MongrelSun

ok, made it an easy decision on whether to play or not, have fun on your server.

Sat 2 Jun 2018 8:00 PM by Niix

lol that make or breaks the server?

Sun 3 Jun 2018 4:03 AM by Wilfu

Niix wrote: ↑
Sat 2 Jun 2018 8:00 PM
lol that make or breaks the server?

He wanted to play a healing paladin/merc/armsman and was told no. Wardens had end in their buff line for a reason. It balanced out their damage output and made them a more support oriented class instead of a damage disher. Hibs already have enough melee dps compared to their caster dps.

Mon 4 Jun 2018 3:05 AM by MongrelSun

Go back and read the description of the class, they gave up their healing capability to concentrate on their melee and buffing skills. The move of End Redux to regrowth broke the melee side of the class. Mythic admitted the error and moved it back to the Nurture line in patch 1.87. Having end redux in the nurture line didn't make Wardens a damage dealing machine but, in conjunction with their other skills, it enabled them to hold their own 1v1 if spec'd for melee and played well. By leaving it as it is you are being told to spec healing, there are no other options as to achieve the level of end redux required to compete in melee you have to lower your melee capability to a point that you are no longer competitive. Your classic catch 22.

No other class that has end redux, ie Friar, had it moved to their healing lines, just the warden, and it was done in a misguided attempt to buff the healing line without increasing the healing capability. This was all admitted at the time of the reversion and a letter of apology was sent out by the Warden Team lead at the time for not fighting the change when it occurred.

Warden is my favorite class, what will be released here isn't a Warden but a substandard Druid with a few different buffs. Live saw the fault and fixed it and having already lived through this on live I have no intention of repeating the experience.

Mon 4 Jun 2018 5:50 AM by cdc

I'd like to point out the availability and mechanics of tireless on Phoenix for your consideration, and again stress the already significant boosts that wardens have received. This argument is academic at this point as the decision has been made, but it's worth noting that the effect of the current setup is in no way debilitating, given other factors.

Mon 4 Jun 2018 3:20 PM by MongrelSun

From the DAOC site since some of you may not have seen it:

Wardens have their roots in the art of healing, but over the years have focused their abilities on buffing and fighting. They retain the ability to cast basic heals, but are not as strong of a healer as they are as a fighter / buffer.

I don't feel like playing a broken class, which imo your Warden is, with the added frustration of knowing it isn't what was intended by the developers, by their own admission. If the Warden isn't an option I don't feel like playing DAOC.

Telling me to spend some of the limited Rps you receive on a skill I should already have access to as a Melee Warden isn't really a solution. You're are just further reducing the effectiveness of the class by making them spread their rps across a larger pool of RAs and this for a skill they should already have access to. So the choice is split spec or dilute your RP spend. One choice breaks the melee build and the other spends much needed RPs on a skill the Warden should already have. Choices which no other class with an end redux buff has to make because their buffs are in their buffing line not their healing line.

Its You're server so you make the rules. I get to choose if I play under those rules, I choose not to.

Tue 5 Jun 2018 12:32 AM by Varano

I love this kids enthusiasm. I say give wardens the buffs I love seeing wardens actually being played.
It's not going to make or break any other class and will save wardens 2-4 rap's
I still wouldn't want to play one even with this buff.
However If you gave them shield spec I would be all over that class, haha

Wed 6 Jun 2018 1:28 AM by Haruspex

I believe the Devs have made a poor decision on this for the wrong reasons - I shall explain:

The reason given by Uthred was that due to the buffs and changes they have implemented for the Warden, they are declining this change as they see it as another buff. That is fundamentally wrong. It is a fix that was implemented and acknowledged by Mythic as not being in line with the vision of the class and detrimental to the people playing it.

I understand that a vote was taken place, but I feel that it was taken under the wrong view. This server is all about quality of life and small enhancements to make it more fun and enjoyable for this patch version. This is a noble ideal and something I truly believe will be a success. I feel that as this FIX was made by Mythic for the same reasons that the Devs here at Phoenix have been making small adjustments to the classes.

It is my opinion that the vote should be retaken under this understanding. It is not a buff, it simply makes the class more playable and more able to be what it was designed by Mythic to be - a hybrid that can provide small heals to the group along with some useful buffs and utility, while being able to melee decently. I do not feel the statement of 'Well we've already buffed Warden with better heals and cures, so just spend Realmpoints if you want endurance." is a fair at all.

Wed 6 Jun 2018 5:05 AM by cdc

ALL classes that use endurance as a resource gain equal and significant improvement to their quality of life with the tireless changes. All other classes that would not have previously viewed purchasing the tireless RA have been given the option. Wardens will not be excluded from the tireless mechanic, thus they have gained access to significant improvement of their overall endurance (yes, albeit at a cost) usage alongside their other enhancements. Of course everybody would like the best of everything and not have to pay for it, but that's not how balance is brought about. You are incorrect in your assessment that all sides were not considered, and we may revisit this discussion in future after we see how things settle with the current changes already in place, but this is a proposed change that is directly downstream from a major change that is already in place, and as such the decision has been reached (for the time being) to leave the warden in it's current state.

I am going to close this thread at this time as answered, however feel free to raise this later in the evolution of Phoenix, as the points made within this thread are still valid for later consideration.