The reason behind this... - Phoenix Freeshard

Why can you insta switch weapons which helps Stealthers/Archers/All melee tremendously....

Yes casters have to wait 2-3 seconds after attacking before casting a spell?

I understand it has always been like this, just finding it amusing it is considered fair =)

Thu 9 Aug 2018 4:49 PM by heardstheword

Melee characters still have to wait for the swing timer before swinging again. It's not instantaneous.

It may feel instantaneous because you go out of combat when you make the weapon swap.

If it takes you 2 seconds per swing, regardless if you swap weapons, you will not swing again until that 2seconds is up (or whatever the time is based on your quickness/weaponspeed/etc.)

Thu 9 Aug 2018 5:22 PM by Tyton

Swapping weapons puts you out of combat for a second, and you have to re-enter combat. It's not instant. So if you're a sneak, and you swap through 5 different weapons, each change is a second lost (or something like that).

Thu 9 Aug 2018 5:33 PM by Joc

I've weapon swapped on my sneaks since release. It's a core mechanic and should not be changed. A sneak is SUPPOSED to be able to kill in most 1v1 situations but is tremendously weak or exposed when dealing with more than 1 opponent.

The weapon swapping doesn't lower swing speed time. If you're quick enough you wont see a change in swing speed, but if you're slow you will actually see an increased time between swings. It's an art you have to perfect over time to get good at.

Also knowing when to apply certain poisons or weapons is also situational. You have to know what your opponent can do back to you to be able to choose the right poisons for the fight.

Thu 9 Aug 2018 5:36 PM by Joc

Also, get ready to see the endo burn poisons (I forget the name) and lethargy poisons. Those are both devastating to 2h users or people who think they can sprint or kite the entire fight.

I personally LOVE lethargy poisons. In many cases I start with the ws/con debuff and disease on my first round. I then swap in lethargy and dot poisons early in the fight.

Thu 9 Aug 2018 5:38 PM by heardstheword

Joc wrote: ↑
Thu 9 Aug 2018 5:33 PM
Also knowing when to apply certain poisons or weapons is also situational. You have to know what your opponent can do back to you to be able to choose the right poisons for the fight.

I've started to get a little better at this. Knowing when swapping my LA isn't beneficial, or when to swap my mainhand sword out to reapply the DoT. It's a lot to remember which weapon has what poison applied to it when you have 5 weapons (2MH, 2offhand, 1 2-handed). It's nice to get into a groove to always know that my 2nd LA weapon has the weaponskill/con debuff on it, etc.

Thu 9 Aug 2018 5:39 PM by Joc

One advantage the SB has

is both weapons swing each round. Typically I swap my mainhand though.

Thu 9 Aug 2018 5:42 PM by relvinian

"A sneak is SUPPOSED to be able to kill in most 1v1 situations but is tremendously weak or exposed when dealing with more than 1 opponent."

Who says? Do you think a sneak should beat a shield tank?

Thu 9 Aug 2018 6:03 PM by Joc

Hit and miss, but they have the tools to do it. If a shield tank can outlast and land a 2nd slam the sneak probably cant beat them. If purge is down on the sneak they should lose though.

Even with a capped template any 9s slam will kill a sneak if they cant purge it.

Thu 9 Aug 2018 6:04 PM by heardstheword

relvinian wrote: ↑
Thu 9 Aug 2018 5:42 PM
"A sneak is SUPPOSED to be able to kill in most 1v1 situations but is tremendously weak or exposed when dealing with more than 1 opponent."

Who says? Do you think a sneak should beat a shield tank?

I think it was an exaggeration. Should? No. No class should be a guaranteed kill by any other class. Even casters have a chance (though small) against an assassin perf.

Assassins definitely can kill shield tanks, but it's tough.

Thu 9 Aug 2018 6:52 PM by Tyton

@Relv notice he said "Should" and "Most" - relax my man. Haha.

And /agree Joc, it is an artform that needs mastering. My point was just that it's not as simply/instant as some folks make it out to be. It's a lot of work and practice for some people who are used to spamming 2 styles and /stick.

Thu 9 Aug 2018 7:07 PM by relvinian

Caster's chance vs pa is extremely small.

Pet classes may occasionally win but non pet casters for the most part are dead.

Thu 9 Aug 2018 7:19 PM by Cirath

You're comparing apples to oranges. Properly performed PA's dont just magically happen Relvinian. It takes a good amount of planning and ability to get in position to make that strike. Especially on a server where everyone is moving with a minimum of hastener + permasprint. That is a best case scenario for an assasin, it should give them a good chance to win, and it is certainly no guarantee. Shield tanks, anything with insta CC, or IP can still easily beat an assasin if things go their way after PA. how often does a caster or shield tank win a fight when they start in a best case scenario?

Thu 9 Aug 2018 7:25 PM by Cirath

@Tyton Weaponswapping, although easier here than other servers, still requires a considerable bit of work and practice to understand the nuances and do it well. Alot of the folks that complain about assasins dont play them, dont know what is required to play them well, and dont know what they are realistically capable of. They just see their toons face down in the emain sod, they dont see the effort and planning that went into it, or the fullgroup that rolls said assasin 5 minutes later.

Thu 9 Aug 2018 7:30 PM by Tyton

Cirath wrote: ↑
Thu 9 Aug 2018 7:25 PM
@Tyton Weaponswapping, although easier here than other servers, still requires a considerable bit of work and practice to understand the nuances and do it well. Alot of the folks that complain about assasins dont play them, dont know what is required to play them well, and dont know what they are realistically capable of. They just see their toons face down in the emain sod, they dont see the effort and planning that went into it, or the fullgroup that rolls said assasin 5 minutes later.

Completely agree with this.

They also don't take into account the time it took for you to get to said place (hiding, tiptoeing across zones in stealth) and wait for the right opportunity--situations that don't always come to fruition.

Thu 9 Aug 2018 9:37 PM by relvinian

Joc wrote: ↑
Thu 9 Aug 2018 6:03 PM
Hit and miss, but they have the tools to do it. If a shield tank can outlast and land a 2nd slam the sneak probably cant beat them. If purge is down on the sneak they should lose though.

Even with a capped template any 9s slam will kill a sneak if they cant purge it.

Sneak can purge slam.

Tank can purge one set of poisons but will get the rest of the golf bag soon enough.

Fri 10 Aug 2018 1:28 AM by Joc

relvinian wrote: ↑
Thu 9 Aug 2018 9:37 PM
Joc wrote: ↑
Thu 9 Aug 2018 6:03 PM
Hit and miss, but they have the tools to do it. If a shield tank can outlast and land a 2nd slam the sneak probably cant beat them. If purge is down on the sneak they should lose though.

Even with a capped template any 9s slam will kill a sneak if they cant purge it.

Sneak can purge slam.

Tank can purge one set of poisons but will get the rest of the golf bag soon enough.

As they should. Many shield tanks have IP, much higher weapon skill (or moderately higher after the debuffs) more hp, and the ability to outlast an assassin to be able to slam a 2nd time. Assassins are not easy mode (especially this patch) by any means. I've played casters, tanks, and hybrids also to very high RR and I know the strengths and weaknesses of every class. If you played an assassin for any decent amount of time you would know their limits.

Yes I said most of the time they should kill their targets. If a sneak is caught in the open (which happens often enough) they are at a massive disadvantage. A sneak should win most fights in a 1v1, but often times they are added on. Call it poor luck, poor target selection, or just bad RNG in many cases, but they are still beatable. People are just upset they die to something that got the jump on them. The thing is, is that is the point of the class. Sneaks are true glass cannons with very weak CC. Low hp, low weaponskill, rarely grouped, poor RAs, and shunned by people that dont understand them. Level one, learn it, and go rvr with it. When you're done come back and tell us your experience with them and be honest.

Working as intended as it always has been.

Fri 10 Aug 2018 1:39 AM by Geek

I've always played sneaks as mains. I tried a Cabalist the other day. Dang, they're awesome. That seems easy mode to me. Nerf it?

Fri 10 Aug 2018 2:23 AM by Cirath

Joc wrote: ↑
Fri 10 Aug 2018 1:28 AM
As they should. Many shield tanks have IP, much higher weapon skill (or moderately higher after the debuffs) more hp, and the ability to outlast an assassin to be able to slam a 2nd time. Assassins are not easy mode (especially this patch) by any means. I've played casters, tanks, and hybrids also to very high RR and I know the strengths and weaknesses of every class. If you played an assassin for any decent amount of time you would know their limits.

Yes I said most of the time they should kill their targets. If a sneak is caught in the open (which happens often enough) they are at a massive disadvantage. A sneak should win most fights in a 1v1, but often times they are added on. Call it poor luck, poor target selection, or just bad RNG in many cases, but they are still beatable. People are just upset they die to something that got the jump on them. The thing is, is that is the point of the class. Sneaks are true glass cannons with very weak CC. Low hp, low weaponskill, rarely grouped, poor RAs, and shunned by people that dont understand them. Level one, learn it, and go rvr with it. When you're done come back and tell us your experience with them and be honest.

Working as intended as it always has been.

It's easy to spot the folks that have experience playing assassins.
Any tank silly enough to blow PURGE on poisons instead of saving it for stun deserves what they get.

Fri 10 Aug 2018 1:38 PM by heardstheword

Cirath wrote: ↑
Fri 10 Aug 2018 2:23 AM
It's easy to spot the folks that have experience playing assassins.
Any tank silly enough to blow PURGE on poisons instead of saving it for stun deserves what they get.

Unless they're against me, because sword line doesn't have the evade stun yet :'(

(my LA is too low for the evade stun there)