Realm Timer Adjustment - Phoenix Freeshard

Hi, I wanted to ask if there is any way we can get into a discussion over realm timer. I understanding wanting realm pride, but waiting the full 12hours is a pain at times. If we adjust the timer to say 2 or 4 hours it allows people who are wanting to just jump realm when one is overpowering. But it also allows people to have flexibility finding groups/ fights or whatever else they may want to do. Just wanted to see if it was possible to have a good discussion about benefits and why 12 hours would be any different for realm hopers than a 2 or 4hour timer would be. It just allows me to wake up and play any realm rather than having to wait 12 hours to play.

Wed 26 Jun 2019 3:32 PM by Muschen

Join the fun!

https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1410&hilit=Timer

Wed 26 Jun 2019 4:07 PM by Lollie

I think because of the actions and behaviours of a few, what ever slim chance that it was even up for discussion between the devs has all but gone.

Wed 26 Jun 2019 5:27 PM by Fayynne

We should do what live is implementing a 4 hour realm timer that only triggers if you get realm points or a player kill

https://darkageofcamelot.com/article/friday-grab-bag-06072019

Wed 26 Jun 2019 7:28 PM by Boric

I love the argument that people make to lower realm timer "look live is doing it".

We should also add all of Cata/TOA/ect that live has! O wait, we want to cherry pick only the things that fit our agenda. Nevermind

Wed 26 Jun 2019 7:35 PM by Kaseylol

Boric wrote: ↑
Wed 26 Jun 2019 7:28 PM
I love the argument that people make to lower realm timer "look live is doing it".

We should also add all of Cata/TOA/ect that live has! O wait, we want to cherry pick only the things that fit our agenda. Nevermind

You think the only justification for that suggestion is that live is doing it?

It's pretty clear that the main reason there's a realm timer at all is to prevent rvr - related shenanigans. Live recognized this and has reduced the timer and added an rvr participation qualifier. The idea here is that if you're simply farming pve or leveling toons, unless you happen to participate in rvr, it shouldn't matter how often you switch back and forth.

Why ignore the soul of the argument?

Wed 26 Jun 2019 8:28 PM by Boric

So I should be able to log on, PvE until I see which realm is winning RvR (Is Pilzpower or Grumpybutt winning/running?) and then choose to join the winning team to make it more lopsided as thats the easiest way for me to get RP's for the evening?

I know it is still possible to get on Discord and ask around but making it this much easier for the masses does not make much sense.

Log on to Hib
"/who BG", o crap none running.
/u, 50Albs, 150Mids, 50Hibs
/realm, Mids own all Mid, and half of hib and fighting hib keeps.

I wonder what the masses would do.

Wed 26 Jun 2019 8:33 PM by Kaseylol

Boric wrote: ↑
Wed 26 Jun 2019 8:28 PM
So I should be able to log on, PvE until I see which realm is winning RvR (Is Pilzpower or Grumpybutt winning/running?) and then choose to join the winning team to make it more lopsided as thats the easiest way for me to get RP's for the evening?

I know it is still possible to get on Discord and ask around but making it this much easier for the masses does not make much sense.

Log on to Hib
"/who BG", o crap none running.
/u, 50Albs, 150Mids, 50Hibs
/realm, Mids own all Mid, and half of hib and fighting hib keeps.

I wonder what the masses would do.

Sure, why not?

If anything your problem is with keeptake RPs, where people are incentivized for zerging keeps all day. Most players I know would very quickly choose the losing realm for constant action rather than join a brain dead keeptage BG.

Wed 26 Jun 2019 8:36 PM by Boric

That is where you needed to preface your argument that you are talking from the 8man exclusive side which makes up 10% of the population.

Also, no where did I state the BG was only RvDooring, maybe they were fighting the other forces outside of a keep in open field, people flock to winning team.

Its the same reason when a BG or 8man gets killed they log. They do not tend to log when they are winning multiple fights

Wed 26 Jun 2019 8:38 PM by Kaseylol

Boric wrote: ↑
Wed 26 Jun 2019 8:36 PM
That is where you needed to preface your argument that you are talking from the 8man exclusive side which makes up 10% of the population.

Also, no where did I state the BG was only RvDooring, maybe they were fighting the other forces outside of a keep in open field, people flock to winning team.

Its the same reason when a BG or 8man gets killed they log. They do not tend to log when they are winning multiple fights

Never said anything about 8man, actually. You're projecting.

Wed 26 Jun 2019 8:39 PM by Boric

More great contribution from you.

Anyway's I have provided support for why they have not and hopefully will not change it to your liking.

I will back out of the thread before you make it more toxic.

Wed 26 Jun 2019 8:43 PM by Kaseylol

Boric wrote: ↑
Wed 26 Jun 2019 8:39 PM
More great contribution from you.

Anyway's I have provided support for why they have not and hopefully will not change it to your liking.

I will back out of the thread before you make it more toxic.

Your argument isn't great. In fact, I'd argue a shorter or no timer would very much so even out the population.

How do you know those players in the overpopulated realm, with no Rp bonus, don't wish they could switch and join a bg to help fight them off? Why do you assume everyone will just stick to the zerg realm? How do you know the timer isn't what causes these zerg realms because everyone is stuck to a realm for 12 hours?

Wed 26 Jun 2019 8:57 PM by Fayynne

Boric wrote: ↑
Wed 26 Jun 2019 7:28 PM
I love the argument that people make to lower realm timer "look live is doing it".

We should also add all of Cata/TOA/ect that live has! O wait, we want to cherry pick only the things that fit our agenda. Nevermind

People are using the live realm timer as an example because it's fair and a good idea. That would help stem the bleeding this server is facing.
We need to keep as many people around as possible for the next two months before wow kills daoc again

Wed 26 Jun 2019 9:01 PM by Boric

How do I know this? I do not know this, nobody can know it as it has not happened.

If you take the past 20 years of MMO's , it is pretty good evidence that people like to be on the winning team/realm and not the losing team/realm. Just like back in 'Old' DAOC people would swap servers to go to one that the realm they wanted to play was winning, leaving each server a 1 realm game.

If you take a look at Phoenix to date, when one realm is 'dominating' in RvR, the other realms go and PvE or log off, they do not try to build force and defend/fight back vs the winning realm. There is a reason that the Mids/Albs typically sit back and PvE/not RvR when Pilz zerg was taking every keep in OF. They would wait, let them take them all, then as they disperse they would group up to play.

If you look at Phoenix to date, when a large group (outnumbered or not) is defeated a few times and the people playing have not gotten the RP's they desire, they log off or go and PvE.

if you look at Phoenix to date, when an 8man (I do play in 8mans too) is defeated a few times and the people playing have not gotten the RP's they desire, they log off or go and PvE.

We can sit here and pretend that 50% of the winning team zerg will type /bc Hey guys, half of us should log on our Albs to make this an even fight. But it wont happen.

You can pretend that the casuals will log over to the losing realm for the 50% RP Bonus OMGZ!
Let me do the math for you. 0 * 1.50 = 0 still.

The one thing this will benefit, and I have been a part of it is when there are multiple 8mans of one realm vs no 8mans of the other realm. One of them (Say PK for example) may log on their Albs if there was no timer to fight the 2-3 Hib groups. This helps a very very small % of the population.

Wed 26 Jun 2019 9:12 PM by Kaseylol

Boric wrote: ↑
Wed 26 Jun 2019 9:01 PM
How do I know this? I do not know this, nobody can know it as it has not happened.

If you take the past 20 years of MMO's , it is pretty good evidence that people like to be on the winning team/realm and not the losing team/realm. Just like back in 'Old' DAOC people would swap servers to go to one that the realm they wanted to play was winning, leaving each server a 1 realm game.

If you take a look at Phoenix to date, when one realm is 'dominating' in RvR, the other realms go and PvE or log off, they do not try to build force and defend/fight back vs the winning realm. There is a reason that the Mids/Albs typically sit back and PvE/not RvR when Pilz zerg was taking every keep in OF. They would wait, let them take them all, then as they disperse they would group up to play.

If you look at Phoenix to date, when a large group (outnumbered or not) is defeated a few times and the people playing have not gotten the RP's they desire, they log off or go and PvE.

if you look at Phoenix to date, when an 8man (I do play in 8mans too) is defeated a few times and the people playing have not gotten the RP's they desire, they log off or go and PvE.

We can sit here and pretend that 50% of the winning team zerg will type /bc Hey guys, half of us should log on our Albs to make this an even fight. But it wont happen.

You can pretend that the casuals will log over to the losing realm for the 50% RP Bonus OMGZ!
Let me do the math for you. 0 * 1.50 = 0 still.

The one thing this will benefit, and I have been a part of it is when there are multiple 8mans of one realm vs no 8mans of the other realm. One of them (Say PK for example) may log on their Albs if there was no timer to fight the 2-3 Hib groups. This helps a very very small % of the population.

Again, your issue is with the ability for a BG to afk take keeps and get consistent RPs. I guarantee you a 60 person zerg wouldn't last long if they had no keeps to take and no players to kill - effectively getting them zero rps.

It's a design flaw with the keeptake rewards, nothing to do with realm timers.

Wed 26 Jun 2019 9:24 PM by Boric

So how would putting Realm Timer to zero change any of what was stated, which is your argument?

You again, just try to rip apart prior posts with adding zero to the conversation.
Must be part of the 10 person troll brigade that patrols forums and Phoenix discord with 'Whens Realm Timer getting shortened" every 20th message hoping it gets axed so the you can 'draft' two 8mans a night and play against each other

Wed 26 Jun 2019 9:27 PM by Kaseylol

Boric wrote: ↑
Wed 26 Jun 2019 9:24 PM
So how would putting Realm Timer to zero change any of what was stated, which is your argument?

My argument isn't a fix for that. I think it may help, but my argument doesn't live or die on keeptake bg mechanics. You are trying to refute my argument for why a reduced realm switch timer could help rvr, but are using keeptake rewards RP as an anchor. Nothing to do with the idea of shortening a realm switch timer at all.

Wed 26 Jun 2019 9:35 PM by Boric

For the 4th time, what will your magic reduction in realm timer fix for the majority of players?

You have yet to answer the question with a real answer, but I am not surprised. Everyone gives the same random answers of "Its 2019 we should be able to do whatever we want", "Live is changing to something better ROFL", "We can change to the realm with less people (this is mainly from the 8man's) which means log over if we cannot find a fight, or are losing to the opponents out".

None of the above are thought out answers with an actual explanation.

Wed 26 Jun 2019 9:37 PM by Fayynne

Boric wrote: ↑
Wed 26 Jun 2019 9:01 PM
How do I know this? I do not know this, nobody can know it as it has not happened.

If you take the past 20 years of MMO's , it is pretty good evidence that people like to be on the winning team/realm and not the losing team/realm. Just like back in 'Old' DAOC people would swap servers to go to one that the realm they wanted to play was winning, leaving each server a 1 realm game.

If you take a look at Phoenix to date, when one realm is 'dominating' in RvR, the other realms go and PvE or log off, they do not try to build force and defend/fight back vs the winning realm. There is a reason that the Mids/Albs typically sit back and PvE/not RvR when Pilz zerg was taking every keep in OF. They would wait, let them take them all, then as they disperse they would group up to play.

If you look at Phoenix to date, when a large group (outnumbered or not) is defeated a few times and the people playing have not gotten the RP's they desire, they log off or go and PvE.

if you look at Phoenix to date, when an 8man (I do play in 8mans too) is defeated a few times and the people playing have not gotten the RP's they desire, they log off or go and PvE.

We can sit here and pretend that 50% of the winning team zerg will type /bc Hey guys, half of us should log on our Albs to make this an even fight. But it wont happen.

You can pretend that the casuals will log over to the losing realm for the 50% RP Bonus OMGZ!
Let me do the math for you. 0 * 1.50 = 0 still.

The one thing this will benefit, and I have been a part of it is when there are multiple 8mans of one realm vs no 8mans of the other realm. One of them (Say PK for example) may log on their Albs if there was no timer to fight the 2-3 Hib groups. This helps a very very small % of the population.

Do you know why no one defended the keeps when pilz was out? Because Defending OF keeps is fucking terrible and you have zero LOS. People are defending keeps when NF is in. PIlz at one point rage quit his own BG because he couldn't take a keep. People not fighting his zerg has nothing to do with wanting to be on the winning side it had to do with the design of OF keeps

Wed 26 Jun 2019 9:39 PM by Kaseylol

Boric wrote: ↑
Wed 26 Jun 2019 9:35 PM
For the 4th time, what will your magic reduction in realm timer fix for the majority of players?

You have yet to answer the question with a real answer, but I am not surprised. Everyone gives the same random answers of "Its 2019 we should be able to do whatever we want", "Live is changing to something better ROFL", "We can change to the realm with less people (this is mainly from the 8man's) which means log over if we cannot find a fight, or are losing to the opponents out".

None of the above are thought out answers with an actual explanation.

Hi, did you miss my first post? Let me repost for you.

You think the only justification for that suggestion is that live is doing it?

It's pretty clear that the main reason there's a realm timer at all is to prevent rvr - related shenanigans. Live recognized this and has reduced the timer and added an rvr participation qualifier. The idea here is that if you're simply farming pve or leveling toons, unless you happen to participate in rvr, it shouldn't matter how often you switch back and forth.

Why ignore the soul of the argument?

Wed 26 Jun 2019 9:52 PM by Boric

Yes I did read that first post and responded accurately to why it should not be changed to allow people to log on and supervise the RvR to choose which side they feel like playing on the given day as more people will choose to play for the 'winning' realm during their playtime.

After that I provided many other discussion points as to why I felt it was not needed which you responded to with 0 more constructive points.

So I guess we have done the song and dance and you have nothing further to contribute.

Wed 26 Jun 2019 9:56 PM by Kaseylol

Boric wrote: ↑
Wed 26 Jun 2019 9:52 PM
Yes I did read that first post and responded accurately to why it should not be changed to allow people to log on and supervise the RvR to choose which side they feel like playing on the given day as more people will choose to play for the 'winning' realm during their playtime.

After that I provided many other discussion points as to why I felt it was not needed which you responded to with 0 more constructive points.

So I guess we have done the song and dance and you have nothing further to contribute.

You didn't demonstrate any of that. You made a claim people love to form up big BGs and fight no one but keep doors and that's an issue with keeptake rewards, not realm timers.

If those giant bgs weren't incentivized to afk at keep doors and not care how many enemies there are then people would be forced to play realms where they are assured RP action. They are not now, because regardless of how many enemies there are, they can realm rank up on keeptakes.

So again, your issue is with keep rewards, not realm timers. Your reading comprehension could use some work but I'm happy to keep trying.

Wed 26 Jun 2019 10:01 PM by Boric

Good day to you Mr. Troll.

Reason #1254 people cannot have nice things or real conversations.

Wed 26 Jun 2019 10:03 PM by Kaseylol

Boric wrote: ↑
Wed 26 Jun 2019 10:01 PM
Good day to you Mr. Troll.

Reason #1254 people cannot have nice things or real conversations.

"I don't understand the argument and can't support my own, so the other person must be trolling"

Wed 26 Jun 2019 10:05 PM by Boric

It is extremely confusing if you are actually talking to yourself in the last 2-3 replies with your comments. Are you two people sharing the same account and talking to the other one?

Also do you know how quotes work? Who are you quoting in that last post?

Wed 26 Jun 2019 10:07 PM by easytoremember

Should not reduce realm timer and more so with NF
Keep ownership pools population

Wed 26 Jun 2019 10:09 PM by Kaseylol

Boric wrote: ↑
Wed 26 Jun 2019 10:05 PM
It is extremely confusing if you are actually talking to yourself in the last 2-3 replies with your comments. Are you two people sharing the same account and talking to the other one?

Also do you know how quotes work? Who are you quoting in that last post?

Just paraphrasing what you said. Is English your second language? Seems you have comprehension issues across the board.

Wed 26 Jun 2019 10:13 PM by Boric

Insults me for the second time about my ability to understand English and my reading comprehension.

Continues to incorrectly use said language and proves he is unable to comprehend what is being said.

Ironic?

Wed 26 Jun 2019 10:16 PM by Kaseylol

Boric wrote: ↑
Wed 26 Jun 2019 10:13 PM
Insults me for the second time about my ability to understand English and my reading comprehension.

Continues to incorrectly use said language and proves he is unable to comprehend what is being said.

Ironic?

There is a lot of irony here, yeah, but probably not in the way you think.

Wed 26 Jun 2019 10:19 PM by Boric

Please refer to post #23.

Thank you for the entertainment during my day at work. Please work on being better in the future.

Wed 26 Jun 2019 11:05 PM by Kaseylol

Boric wrote: ↑
Wed 26 Jun 2019 10:19 PM
Please refer to post #23.

Thank you for the entertainment during my day at work. Please work on being better in the future.

Please refer to post #24.

Thu 27 Jun 2019 10:00 AM by Moid

I feel surprised and I also now feel naive. This server is slowly being turned into a mirror image of live. Ever day there is another request by players to make this server move like live DAoC. I wonder how long this server will have to survive before it becomes identical to live?

Thu 27 Jun 2019 1:02 PM by Azrael

I bet you will be very very surprised but omg there are already some posts about realm timer.

https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=9725&p=72009&hilit=realm+timer#p72021

Just ask if you need some help with the search button but I guess it is easier to open a new thread about the same topic every few days

Thu 27 Jun 2019 1:12 PM by

Uthred

No plans on changing the realm timer.

Please use the search function before opening a new thread.

Thx.

Locked.