Before I dive into my main question and associated thoughts I want to thank the devs working on this project for everything that have down for this now nearly 20 year old gem. I have found memories of our experiences in the lands of Midgar, Hibernia, and Albion from my years invested what feels like a lifetime ago.
I have been enjoying myself as I begin my adventures anew in these magical virtual world, but I am starting to feel the effects of the wheel of time when it comes to both QoL features and general balance while I head to 50. My question is...
"Are there any plans to make changes that would allow more classes to be viable on the journey to 50 in PvE?"
My main reason for asking this question is I believe this has a large amount of impact on the experience as a whole. Looking at the breath of changes that have been made so far, it leads me to believe that the folks working on this project have access to the code-base or gameplay data enough to realistically make some improvements that would hopefully make the leveling experience more friendly to all classes. New players that dive in and experience the game for the first time will be looking at Phoenix and comparing their experiences against what is out there today. When it comes to PvE it is already a great improvement over vanilla DAoC, but it still suffers from some of its largest downfalls.
Specially PBAE groups and their effect on the leveling experience for classes that don't fit into the mold that define these groups. My hope here was to start a discussion with the hopes of hearing what the current developers think on the topic, and what their overall goals/vision is in this regard? Do they too think it needs some work and they haven't settled on a solution yet? Or they believe it should remain as is and focus on the end game?
Some random thoughts I had were....
Random Thought - PBAE threat
You could update PBAE spells draw significantly more aggro when they hit enemies, this essentially requires melee classes to taunt/control mobs that are currently being engaged in combat.
Pros
All melee characters can participate by taunting incoming enemies using existing melee styles.
Cons
PBAE classes will definitely feel a big change in their ability to nuke freely in these situations.
Other Considerations
All melee classes aren't built equally when it comes to taking hits from enemies, by design. This could have positive and negative outcomes... but it would definitely push on group composition a bit.
Maximum velocity of leveling would slow down a bit which may require a look at XP multipliers or gains if the current rates are the target to ensure parity.
Class diversity end game could increase as a result. I consider this a net positive, but it will definitely be subjective.
A new meta will need some time to develop, and old habits die hard for many folks.
This doesn't solve the PvE efficiency discrepancies in Hib between animists and everyone else.
Random thoughts - Revisit archer draw times at lower levels
The main thought here is that draw times of 5s minimum for a bow shot with short bows as a low level archer seem unnecessary. I understand the line of thinking here of your character growing/improving as they level up in this regard, but I believe the deviation is pretty massive. 5s is the upper limit for critical shots on great recurve bows when you are geared out at 50. (Please call me out of this is wrong... this is something I am taking from memory.... that is quite... old) I believe that this part of the experience could change to keep the feeling of firing a bow more consistent in terms of draw times and improve archer viability in PvE earlier on. These draw times basically make it such that archers are worthless with bows until a certain point.
Pros
Archers could, in theory, use their bows in groups and deal decent damage to single targets.
Cons
With the wrong adjustments it could have unintended effects on level 50 bow draw times.
Other Considerations
I have no knowledge of the underlying formulas or systems in place here, but this is something that should be considered a delicate matter to say the least.
Some ways to handle this could include outright changing the draw time formula from quickness such that quickness has less of an impact and the overall draw times are clamped a bit more to fall more in line with how mage cast times change over time. (they surely don't scale from 10s to 5s, and while I understand in some cases they halve... the overall length of time you are waiting for one shot has its limits)
I saw the changes that were made to MoS on this server and was wondering if it would be in reach to consider a similar thing regarding draw times and invested in bow skills?
Random thoughts - Revisit archer accuracy/hit rates with various arrows
This seems to be a thing the archers have come to live with, and I understand if there is a desire for their to be value in crafting the "best" arrows. I would say that value should be relative though. Starting out your miss chance is easily pushing upwards of 25-30% with vendor arrows. Coupled with draw times and the fact that you only realistically get a few shots in before you are unable to shoot anymore when solo.. .means the usefulness of a bow for 'archer' classes while leveling... its pretty moot. It isn't until your stats are buffed to a certain point either from level or gear or buffs that you have any actual effectiveness. I believe these cases should be better and have value, but base efficiency is way off. (And this was true of DAoC as it were back in the day.... )
Thanks for making it this far. Ran a bit short on time typing this up... but thanks for hearing me out.
I have been enjoying myself as I begin my adventures anew in these magical virtual world, but I am starting to feel the effects of the wheel of time when it comes to both QoL features and general balance while I head to 50. My question is...
"Are there any plans to make changes that would allow more classes to be viable on the journey to 50 in PvE?"
My main reason for asking this question is I believe this has a large amount of impact on the experience as a whole. Looking at the breath of changes that have been made so far, it leads me to believe that the folks working on this project have access to the code-base or gameplay data enough to realistically make some improvements that would hopefully make the leveling experience more friendly to all classes. New players that dive in and experience the game for the first time will be looking at Phoenix and comparing their experiences against what is out there today. When it comes to PvE it is already a great improvement over vanilla DAoC, but it still suffers from some of its largest downfalls.
Specially PBAE groups and their effect on the leveling experience for classes that don't fit into the mold that define these groups. My hope here was to start a discussion with the hopes of hearing what the current developers think on the topic, and what their overall goals/vision is in this regard? Do they too think it needs some work and they haven't settled on a solution yet? Or they believe it should remain as is and focus on the end game?
- I believe it is important that all classes can fit into whatever the leveling 'meta' is and provide value to it.
- I believe it is important to think about adjustments that don't fundamentally change classes themselves or affect their roles in RvR.
- I believe it is important that players don't feel obligated to roll one of these classes first in order to have resources/connections to level the one they really want to play second.
Some random thoughts I had were....
Random Thought - PBAE threat
You could update PBAE spells draw significantly more aggro when they hit enemies, this essentially requires melee classes to taunt/control mobs that are currently being engaged in combat.
Pros
All melee characters can participate by taunting incoming enemies using existing melee styles.
Cons
PBAE classes will definitely feel a big change in their ability to nuke freely in these situations.
Other Considerations
All melee classes aren't built equally when it comes to taking hits from enemies, by design. This could have positive and negative outcomes... but it would definitely push on group composition a bit.
Maximum velocity of leveling would slow down a bit which may require a look at XP multipliers or gains if the current rates are the target to ensure parity.
Class diversity end game could increase as a result. I consider this a net positive, but it will definitely be subjective.
A new meta will need some time to develop, and old habits die hard for many folks.
This doesn't solve the PvE efficiency discrepancies in Hib between animists and everyone else.
Random thoughts - Revisit archer draw times at lower levels
The main thought here is that draw times of 5s minimum for a bow shot with short bows as a low level archer seem unnecessary. I understand the line of thinking here of your character growing/improving as they level up in this regard, but I believe the deviation is pretty massive. 5s is the upper limit for critical shots on great recurve bows when you are geared out at 50. (Please call me out of this is wrong... this is something I am taking from memory.... that is quite... old) I believe that this part of the experience could change to keep the feeling of firing a bow more consistent in terms of draw times and improve archer viability in PvE earlier on. These draw times basically make it such that archers are worthless with bows until a certain point.
Pros
Archers could, in theory, use their bows in groups and deal decent damage to single targets.
Cons
With the wrong adjustments it could have unintended effects on level 50 bow draw times.
Other Considerations
I have no knowledge of the underlying formulas or systems in place here, but this is something that should be considered a delicate matter to say the least.
Some ways to handle this could include outright changing the draw time formula from quickness such that quickness has less of an impact and the overall draw times are clamped a bit more to fall more in line with how mage cast times change over time. (they surely don't scale from 10s to 5s, and while I understand in some cases they halve... the overall length of time you are waiting for one shot has its limits)
I saw the changes that were made to MoS on this server and was wondering if it would be in reach to consider a similar thing regarding draw times and invested in bow skills?
Random thoughts - Revisit archer accuracy/hit rates with various arrows
This seems to be a thing the archers have come to live with, and I understand if there is a desire for their to be value in crafting the "best" arrows. I would say that value should be relative though. Starting out your miss chance is easily pushing upwards of 25-30% with vendor arrows. Coupled with draw times and the fact that you only realistically get a few shots in before you are unable to shoot anymore when solo.. .means the usefulness of a bow for 'archer' classes while leveling... its pretty moot. It isn't until your stats are buffed to a certain point either from level or gear or buffs that you have any actual effectiveness. I believe these cases should be better and have value, but base efficiency is way off. (And this was true of DAoC as it were back in the day.... )
Thanks for making it this far. Ran a bit short on time typing this up... but thanks for hearing me out.