Paladin Two-Hand Damage Issue

Started 8 Jun 2020
by Bradekes
in Ask the Team
I was wondering why my 2h damage was so low on Paladin. I know in your wiki it states your raised Paladin damage table from 19 to 21 but I am not seeing it when using a 2h weapon. My Paladin is in the process of leveling and I will post updates when I hit a higher level.

{}NOTE: Damage and Damage Modifier are 100% consistent each hit on same mob - no need for large sample size of hits{}

[]All damage is Auto Attack[]

*Level 4*
Spec:
Two-Handed: 3+0
Slash: 2+0

Damage:
3.5spd 1-h Slash - 11dmg (Damage Modifier: 1399)
4.1spd 1-h Slash(+4str) - 14dmg(Damage Modifier: 1419)
4.5spd 2-h Slash - 14dmg(Damage Modifier: 1165)

*Level 9* - Using merchant bought 5.4dps 85% quality weapons
Spec:
Two-Handed: 1+1
Slash: 1+1

Damage:
3.5spd 1-h Slash - 9dmg(Damage Modifier: 823)
5.1spd 2-h Slash - 11dmg(Damage Modifier: 579)
Tue 9 Jun 2020 2:25 AM by leastofthem
Is this a troll?

You're level 4, get to 50 and if the same problem persist, then ask again.
Tue 9 Jun 2020 3:00 AM by Bradekes
leastofthem wrote:
Tue 9 Jun 2020 2:25 AM
Is this a troll?

You're level 4, get to 50 and if the same problem persist, then ask again.

Why would you think it would be different at 50.. i don't want to level a gimped, bugged class.. lost all interest after finding this..
Tue 9 Jun 2020 6:16 AM by Razur Ur
Bradekes wrote:
Tue 9 Jun 2020 3:00 AM
leastofthem wrote:
Tue 9 Jun 2020 2:25 AM
Is this a troll?

You're level 4, get to 50 and if the same problem persist, then ask again.

Why would you think it would be different at 50.. i don't want to level a gimped, bugged class.. lost all interest after finding this..

i guess paladin is to diffycult for you play better a reaver or minstrel ;-D
Tue 9 Jun 2020 6:32 AM by leastofthem
Bradekes wrote:
Tue 9 Jun 2020 3:00 AM
leastofthem wrote:
Tue 9 Jun 2020 2:25 AM
Is this a troll?

You're level 4, get to 50 and if the same problem persist, then ask again.

Why would you think it would be different at 50.. i don't want to level a gimped, bugged class.. lost all interest after finding this..

Because literally no one else has complained about this "issue" and if there was an existing problem, it would have been highlighted by all the level 50 and high rank pallies than someone who only decided to bring it to level 4.

Your number samples, stats and experience are far too minuscule in this regard to make any meaningful report.
Tue 9 Jun 2020 9:36 AM by Blitze
Obviously , a level 4 comparison is pointless.

However, you have accidentally hit upon a server problem.

Paladins are By far the least popular class for RvR on the server. There are a few minor reasons, but the biggest problem is the endurance 3 potion.
Tue 9 Jun 2020 11:13 AM by Razur Ur
Blitze wrote:
Tue 9 Jun 2020 9:36 AM
Paladins are By far the least popular class for RvR on the server. There are a few minor reasons, but the biggest problem is the endurance 3 potion.

the only problem for pala is that he is hybrid tank and that in albion an alb caster group is much easier to play than a pure tank group! this is the only reason
for not so much populär. look up herald top 50 Hybrid Classes 1 pala and 3 champions :-D, all another reaver and minstrels dominated. i guess the minstrels
need a big nerf ;-).
Tue 9 Jun 2020 11:23 AM by Blitze
Paladins have ~15 RR7s, most other class have 30 to 70 RR7s......

mins/healer/skald/cleric have ~200 RR7s
Tue 9 Jun 2020 11:30 AM by Razur Ur
Blitze wrote:
Tue 9 Jun 2020 11:23 AM
Paladins have ~15 RR7s, most other class have 30 to 70 RR7s......

mins/healer/skald/cleric have ~200 RR7s

rr7 is nothing and get rly fast every player! but you have to see who can make it to rr9 or even rr10 and that's where the wheat is separated from the chaff.
and give you right the minstrels is most populär hybrid class on that server because of easy to play.
Tue 9 Jun 2020 11:51 AM by Bradekes
Then I will investigate further.. maybe, somehow, weapon type damage tables are still bound to "Fighter" base class before level 5.. I'll level one up to 20 and see if the problem persists.. but if it does then I would insist it continues to 50.

*Update* Level 9
This is not looking good so far.
with 1+1 in sword and 2h and using merchant weapon of same caliber(5.4dps 3.5 1h and 5.4dps 5.1 2h
The damage and damage modifier does not change on each hit so don't ask for higher samples
1h dmg 9(damage modifier: 823)
2h dmg 11(damage modifier: 579)

This was on a blue mob. I am guessing my results will be the same at level 20.. with about 142% higher damage modifier on 1h weapon vs 2h
Tue 9 Jun 2020 12:57 PM by opossum12
Bradekes wrote:
Tue 9 Jun 2020 11:51 AM
Then I will investigate further.. maybe, somehow, weapon type damage tables are still bound to "Fighter" base class before level 5.. I'll level one up to 20 and see if the problem persists.. but if it does then I would insist it continues to 50.

It would have been interesting to know your weapons dps and quality...
Tue 9 Jun 2020 1:11 PM by Bradekes
opossum12 wrote:
Tue 9 Jun 2020 12:57 PM
Bradekes wrote:
Tue 9 Jun 2020 11:51 AM
Then I will investigate further.. maybe, somehow, weapon type damage tables are still bound to "Fighter" base class before level 5.. I'll level one up to 20 and see if the problem persists.. but if it does then I would insist it continues to 50.

It would have been interesting to know your weapons dps and quality...

2.7 rog & 97% 98% qual for lvl 4 test
5.4 and 85% on both for level 9 test
Tue 9 Jun 2020 1:40 PM by Neso
Razur Ur wrote: the only problem for pala is that he is hybrid tank and that in albion an alb caster group is much easier to play than a pure tank group! this is the only reason for not so much populär. look up herald top 50 Hybrid Classes 1 pala and 3 champions :-D, all another reaver and minstrels dominated. i guess the Minstrels need a big nerf ;-).


As ever, you attempt to derail posts with unrelated nerf replies whilst obsessively hinting to buff champions.

Unsure where you start helping paladins in rvr at this stage in the server. A jack of a trades, master of none springs to mind.
Those numbers at rr7+ are woeful.
Tue 9 Jun 2020 1:50 PM by Failwalker
85% quality weapons...

HMMMhmmmmmmmmmm
Tue 9 Jun 2020 1:53 PM by Razur Ur
Neso wrote:
Tue 9 Jun 2020 1:40 PM
Razur Ur wrote: the only problem for pala is that he is hybrid tank and that in albion an alb caster group is much easier to play than a pure tank group! this is the only reason for not so much populär. look up herald top 50 Hybrid Classes 1 pala and 3 champions :-D, all another reaver and minstrels dominated. i guess the Minstrels need a big nerf ;-).


As ever, you attempt to derail posts with unrelated nerf replies whilst obsessively hinting to buff champions.

Unsure where you start helping paladins in rvr at this stage in the server. A jack of a trades, master of none springs to mind.
Those numbers at rr7+ are woeful.

yeah sorry i love hybrids except minstrel :-D
Tue 9 Jun 2020 1:55 PM by Bradekes
Failwalker wrote:
Tue 9 Jun 2020 1:50 PM
85% quality weapons...

HMMMhmmmmmmmmmm

The 1h & 2h are both 85% with same 5.4dps why are you trying to discount my findings based on that info? If you want to craft me some 100% weapons so I can test and enchant them sure. I am 100% certain it would garner the same results.
Tue 9 Jun 2020 2:26 PM by Razur Ur
Bradekes wrote:
Tue 9 Jun 2020 1:55 PM
Failwalker wrote:
Tue 9 Jun 2020 1:50 PM
85% quality weapons...

HMMMhmmmmmmmmmm

The 1h & 2h are both 85% with same 5.4dps why are you trying to discount my findings based on that info? If you want to craft me some 100% weapons so I can test and enchant them sure. I am 100% certain it would garner the same results.

What for Styles you has used?
Tue 9 Jun 2020 2:28 PM by Bradekes
Razur Ur wrote:
Tue 9 Jun 2020 2:26 PM
What for Styles you has used?

No styles just Auto Attack
Tue 9 Jun 2020 2:42 PM by Razur Ur
Bradekes wrote:
Tue 9 Jun 2020 2:28 PM
Razur Ur wrote:
Tue 9 Jun 2020 2:26 PM
What for Styles you has used?

No styles just Auto Attack

and you want until lvl 50 all mobs killing unstyled?

PS. and look stats effective dmg value from both weapons + bonus
Tue 9 Jun 2020 3:15 PM by Bradekes
Razur Ur wrote:
Tue 9 Jun 2020 2:42 PM
Bradekes wrote:
Tue 9 Jun 2020 2:28 PM
Razur Ur wrote:
Tue 9 Jun 2020 2:26 PM
What for Styles you has used?

No styles just Auto Attack

and you want until lvl 50 all mobs killing unstyled?

PS. and look stats effective dmg value from both weapons + bonus

You are missing the point.. my damage modifiers should be the same for 1h and 2h with both specs being equal. In fact 2h should be higher because of 2h bonus.. the fact that 1h damage modifier on an auto attack is 148% higher is a huge problem.. meaning paladin 2h is missing out on a lot of damage..

check for yourself on any class using two different weapon types that are both 100% str based.. if they are the same spec and both weapons are equal you will have the same damage modifier on the same mob.

And concerning you PS I am using Identical merchant bought 5.4dps 85% quality weapons there is no difference in effective damage
Tue 9 Jun 2020 3:26 PM by Ele
I have a 2H paly myself and can assure you that - at least for endgame - the dmg is fine and I never saw this weird behaviour you describe. Tbh, it is the opposite, you can drop your base weapon line really low and still boost 2h dmg. I can't find the forum post right now, but in one of the many paly-spec-advise threads included good numbers.
During leveling I was s/b spec till lvl 50, so I can't provide anything substantial. But the issue you discovered might be linked to the problem bow users had on low specs after one of the bow patches, which did not offer the correct dmg gain, but that is just a wild guess. If you really want to get it fixed, you need to open a bug report https://tracker.playphoenix.online/ and support it with more data.
Tue 9 Jun 2020 3:27 PM by Razur Ur
I thought the base dmg is equal between 1h and 2h and only different is the style growthrate and the swing. 1h is most faster as a 2h weapon and
that is the reason normal for higher base dmg with 2h because of low speed attack.
Tue 9 Jun 2020 3:39 PM by Bradekes
Razur Ur wrote:
Tue 9 Jun 2020 3:27 PM
I thought the base dmg is equal between 1h and 2h and only different is the style growthrate and the swing. 1h is most faster as a 2h weapon and
that is the reason normal for higher base dmg with 2h because of low speed attack.

Nope.. twohanded get 10% base damage bonus + 0.5% per spec point uncapped
Tue 9 Jun 2020 3:42 PM by Bradekes
Ele wrote:
Tue 9 Jun 2020 3:26 PM
I have a 2H paly myself and can assure you that - at least for endgame - the dmg is fine and I never saw this weird behaviour you describe. Tbh, it is the opposite, you can drop your base weapon line really low and still boost 2h dmg. I can't find the forum post right now, but in one of the many paly-spec-advise threads included good numbers.
During leveling I was s/b spec till lvl 50, so I can't provide anything substantial. But the issue you discovered might be linked to the problem bow users had on low specs after one of the bow patches, which did not offer the correct dmg gain, but that is just a wild guess. If you really want to get it fixed, you need to open a bug report https://tracker.playphoenix.online/ and support it with more data.

Seeings you have a level 50 paladin can you show difference in 1h and 2h damage and give damage modifier please instead if providng no number info on same mob preferred no SS needed unstyled damage please. If 1h damage mod is higher there's still an issue
Tue 9 Jun 2020 8:49 PM by Ele
RR3, templated, no buffs, on test dummies
50 slash
16,5 dps, 99% quali, 2,6 speed
unstyled dmg 44, Damage modifier 1060

50 2h (31+13 slash)
16,5 dps, 100% quali, 4,8 speed
unstyled dmg 105, Damage modifier 1005

Looks like what you saw on early levels is correct, but I'm unsure what the Damage modifier really does, tbh.
Edit: Once you reach 52 composite weapon spec, the damage modifiers are identical:

50 2h (39+13 slash)
16,5 dps, 100% quali, 4,8 speed
unstyled dmg 111, Damage modifier 1060
Wed 10 Jun 2020 3:20 AM by gruenesschaf
Congratulations, you have figured out what albion 2h / pole dual spec is all about, an albion only linear 33%-0% penalty to the damage modifier based on your modified base weapon spec, it starts at 33% and is at 0% when the modified spec is enemy level + 2.
Wed 10 Jun 2020 1:48 PM by Bradekes
gruenesschaf wrote:
Wed 10 Jun 2020 3:20 AM
Congratulations, you have figured out what albion 2h / pole dual spec is all about, an albion only linear 33%-0% penalty to the damage modifier based on your modified base weapon spec, it starts at 33% and is at 0% when the modified spec is enemy level + 2.

Interesting! Thank you for the clarification! Now, I don't have to scrap my Paladin.
Fri 12 Jun 2020 10:45 PM by pollojack
Yeah, as all the people with a 50 pally have told you pallys are fine. They are one of the toughest 1v1s due to their sustain. Their biggest weakness is time to kill which makes them vulnerable to small-8man adders.
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