Organizing fight meetups on discord

I feel now that we are at the point where this is becoming a common thing, we should probably have some clear cut rules on how this takes place. How do the players want to see this handled? How does the Dev team and game masters want these to take place if at all?

I personally do not have an issue with organizing fights, and after what happened to us a few nights ago (see video below) I have talked to a lot of people and the general consensus is "just let people do it." I am okay with old fashioned meeting at breifine thimble for 8v8's, but please, do not intentionally advise the other team that there is another group following you and not to engage the front group. This is completely crossrealming and feeding. If you have an issue with being followed and are going to a pre organized fight, in my opinion you should kindly be able to tell the following group that you are doing so without backlash from being reported.

Below is a video, that made me a little sick (other than my playing). We were headed to MC, and decided to follow another group. At 2 minutes you hear us finally realize they are probably doing a thimble meetup (I have others voices turned off, but someone says "they are probably doing what people did in beta, and meeting up past thimble"

. We were sort of blind sided, and lost. Thats not the issue, the issue is they 1) obviously knew we were coming 2) we received tells from the group we were following AFTER the fact heckling and 3) they buffed up, and obviously ran away from each other to reset timers to fight again.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/377281340

We talked to a GM just for clarification, they said this isnt proof enough of crossrealming, we need the discord discussion to prove it. I dont even know those people, so that is not realistic.

All I am asking, since this is now becoming a thing, that there are clear cut rules so that we know what to expect in this kind of situation. Also, if you are part of a guild/group that organizes, simply say "hey can you guys back off, we are headed to a premade" and 95% of us would be totally cool with backing off. We were oblivious, and to see them buffing up and running away from each other not engaging was pretty annoying.

Sun 10 Feb 2019 3:50 PM by Expfighter

this RP farming should NEVER be allowed, the good thing about DAoC is that the rvr is supposed to be dynamic! i have ALWAYS had a problem with this organized BS!

there is so much evidence of xrealming going on that it's NOT funny!

when you see you /reg or chat that an enemy or 2 or 3 are killing lowbies and people say brt, then all of a sudden the enemies are GONE? Blatant Xrealming!

should be an immediate and full ban by machine ID!

personally i have always had a problem with voice chat garbage!

Sun 10 Feb 2019 4:21 PM by opossum12

I agree with what you said, that a heads up would have been enough.

The server is in a strange state atm. There are some groups that are tired of the zerging and adding, so they will pull off fights without notice even when these fights are obvious not 8v8... but at the same time you have others that jam everything on sight without swcond thought.

So yeah I think people should be able to set fights with each other, it’s not rp farming is teying to play the game in a way you enjoy.

Sun 10 Feb 2019 5:09 PM by Sepplord

If two groups meet at a specific location to fight each other that is crossrealming imo. That's just like solos meeting and farming each other in the frontier for RPs.

Saying we will be Roaming Zone XYZ though is fine and i encourage them doing it if it makes them find enjoyment abroad of the taskzone.

Sun 10 Feb 2019 5:13 PM by Quik

This is not in the spirit of the game and should be considered an exploit.

I don't care if the rules prohibit or not, this shows favoritism to those people doing it and too much of a chance for people to exploit RP sharing between realms...

Mon 11 Feb 2019 1:20 AM by Falken

Yeah, it is pretty disgusting. It got to the point where in beta that your own realm would pull out of a fight and let you die rather than continue to fight against the other realm. The elitist 8v8 only guilds are a bit insane and have no realm pride in my own personal experience, all they care about is their clean 8v8. I hope this server is never dead enough that clean 8v8s and people have to pre organize fights to find action. It is well known that people do this via discord, all these 8v8 guys are butt buddies.

Mon 11 Feb 2019 2:56 AM by longdongswingin

why did you follow that group all the way to crau?
you know you can ignore players /send aswell if they were "heckling" doubt they were maybe just laughing at you
if anything you were griefing that group by sticking them

Mon 11 Feb 2019 3:03 AM by daocgod

Task group leaves task zone and gets DEMOLISHED.

Mon 11 Feb 2019 3:08 AM by longdongswingin

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/376908243?t=01h40m11s

How is this xrealming? LOL

Mon 11 Feb 2019 3:22 AM by fyn

good call by the devs. You have your point of view and jump to conclusions and try to get other players banned for xrealming. seems to me like you are trying to grief the group when theres other video evidence not supporting your claim

Mon 11 Feb 2019 9:04 AM by Durgrim

it is a crossrealm interaction with the aim to progress your char.
to me (and just me) it is clear. I think the rules do speak on this, aren't they?

Mon 11 Feb 2019 11:17 AM by caridry

fyn wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Feb 2019 3:22 AM
good call by the devs. You have your point of view and jump to conclusions and try to get other players banned for xrealming. seems to me like you are trying to grief the group when theres other video evidence not supporting your claim

To make this clear I DO NOT want these players banned nor am I trying to - this fight merely raised the question. Yes I was curious if it was, and even appealed just asking if it was as you see in my stream. But as I stated in my post, after further discussion there are no real rules on this. So this is why I brought this to a tavern discussion. I want the players opinions and the devs MOVING FORWARD.

It is great to see the other perspective but it confirms 2 things. 1) that the thimble is a pre arranged meetup and 2) there is no conclusive evidence watching previous fights on the hib stream, whether they were or not discussing in discord with 1 or multiple groups outside of game to meet up.

All I want again - are clear rules on this very exact thing, so moving forward we can all live in harmony. If its allowed, state so, so that we can then start talking and not be shy about asking what these players are doing without being invasive. "Hey you guys going to a premade? Yes" easy backoff. With how zergy the server is right now, how do we know they arent trying to hit one? Pretty simple concepts, we just need direction from the higher ups.

Mon 11 Feb 2019 1:46 PM by Bradekes

Why not set up a Battlegrounds for this and have it give no RPS while in that zone. This way everyone's happy. Also make any other meet ups in RvR zone prohibited

Mon 11 Feb 2019 1:57 PM by Jaegaer

Bradekes wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Feb 2019 1:46 PM
Why not set up a Battlegrounds for this and have it give no RPS while in that zone. This way everyone's happy.

Sure, only not. "Why have BGs if they give no RPs?" would be the first complaint.

Also while Phoenix is certainly starting out quite well we do not know how this looks in a year from now. Fracturing the community via BGs is exactly not what you should do if the pop numbers fall any lower than they are now.

That aside: organized fight meetups should be forbidden, just as they were on live. However these things did happen on live too and it is very hard to proove such an arrangement (unless someone streams it ofc).

However it is also not really necessary. Run in the same zone often enough and other groups will know that they will find you there. This is the best way to set up something inside the rules and the spirit of RvR.

Mon 11 Feb 2019 2:02 PM by Bradekes

Jaegaer wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Feb 2019 1:57 PM
Sure, only not. "Why have BGs if they give no RPs?" would be the first complaint.

Also while Phoenix is certainly starting out quite well we do not know how this looks in a year from now. Fracturing the community via BGs is exactly not what you should do if the pop numbers fall any lower than they are now.

Wow what a pessimistic person here.. It gives people options for these group meet up types... Also giving no rps means there's no reason for people to interfere in the fights in this BG...

Have you ever played a game like LoL or HoTS or one that people play for sport? There's a good market for viewers and more publicity on twitch if there's a location for people to partake in this type of activity without the backlash of false accusations of RP farming...

Also stop being a jackalope

Mon 11 Feb 2019 2:12 PM by daocgod

The only RP farming I see here is this purple alb group running in and feeding these hibs.

Mon 11 Feb 2019 2:17 PM by Jaegaer

Bradekes wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Feb 2019 2:02 PM
It gives people options for these group meet up types... Also giving no rps means there's no reason for people to interfere in the fights in this BG...

Ok, you ignored my post to say that DAoC should be more like LoL... No further questions.

Mon 11 Feb 2019 2:27 PM by Bradekes

Jaegaer wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Feb 2019 2:17 PM
Ok, you ignored my post to say that DAoC should be more like LoL... No further questions.

I didn't ignore your post. I responded by giving you reasons a no RP battleground would prolong interest in the server vs your thought that it would diminish it. Also LoL is a very popular game with lots of following, why would you not want to take some notes and apply them in a constructive way?

What is wrong with controlled competition? Seriously... People will still need to go to the frontiers to get RR and it would take some of the highest RR targets out of the frontiers to do some competitive 8v8. To me this is win win for everyone...

Mon 11 Feb 2019 2:41 PM by Jaegaer

Bradekes wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Feb 2019 2:27 PM
What is wrong with controlled competition?

As I already said, it fractures the community. It also goes against the spirit of RvR - a realm war. DAoC has never been about arena combat. The one thing that made DAoC so successful over so many years was that it is very good about building a community. You do not get that with arenas and random instanced 8vs8 action.

Also what would be controleld about that? The moment the first RR5 group gets matched with the rr10 group would see a lot of complaints. So where does it end? A ladder? Leagues? How much of DAoC would be left?

Also, again, how many people would do an RvR morde that does not give RPs? I still doubt that there would be a lot of those.

Finally the technical details are not easy. The currently used code of DAoC does not support instances but an arena would need to be instanmced or else it is utterly useless (you do not get RPs but all the 8-mans run in a tiny zone and constantly add each other?).

So, well, a quite complicated solution that goes against everything that made DAoC great with questionable rate of success...

Mon 11 Feb 2019 2:53 PM by Bradekes

Jaegaer wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Feb 2019 2:41 PM
Also, again, how many people would do an RvR morde that does not give RPs? I still doubt that there would be a lot of those.

Finally the technical details are not easy. The currently used code of DAoC does not support instances but an arena would need to be instanmced or else it is utterly useless (you do not get RPs but all the 8-mans run in a tiny zone and constantly add each other?).

So, well, a quite complicated solution that goes against everything that made DAoC great with questionable rate of success...

I never said add any sort of match making or anything... Just an no RP, open BG people can setup their own 8v8 fights vs other realms.. You're making it too complicated... This isn't anything game breaking or splitting everyone apart...

There are simply people interested in setting up 8v8 fights we should give them a playground for such activity instead of just playing the game jaegaers way...

Mon 11 Feb 2019 3:02 PM by Sepplord

Jaegaer wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Feb 2019 2:41 PM
Bradekes wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Feb 2019 2:27 PM
What is wrong with controlled competition?
It also goes against the spirit of RvR - a realm war.

Not adding into a fight, or letting your realmmates die without helping also goes against the realm war...So are you advocating to forbid that behaviour? I guess not (and i agree that they should be allowed to do it, despite disliking it) so maybe ditch that argument...it doesn't work in your favor

DAoC already had an Arena-NPC and it wasn't used much because of a myriad of reason...the main reason though is that while the 8mans enjoy a tense 8vs8 that can go 15minutes, they enjoy farming noobs even more (or at least the gains). For a good 8man grp the only outcomes of a fight are:

OFCOURSE they want to get rid of c) completely, even though it is against everything that was "originally" the intent of DAoC: Realms fighting, not groups.

Mon 11 Feb 2019 3:50 PM by

gruenesschaf

There have always been a couple different play styles and the clash of the 8v8 only people and those that either don't care for 8v8 at all or even those running with 8 but don't mind adding into other fights or getting added is always a topic.

Our rules are quite simple on that regard: no rp farming / win trading and no direct fight meetups in official channels.

Without the tasks certain zones / locations would just defacto become 8v8 locations and after a while it would become known for everyone and there wouldn't be any need for communication as everyone just knows that's the 8v8 zone. With the tasks however it's a bit more dynamic and hence it is at least somewhat expected that people will use some other discord to coordinate to designate a certain area / zone.

Nothing that happened here is against our rules: People are free to engage, disengange, not engage fights / enemies as they please. That includes disengaging an ongoing 8v8 and teaming up on an adding group of another realm.

On that note when it comes to 8v8 coordination what we would consider cross realming: telling (by any means) people of another realm "hey we have an add group following us" or "I'm sticking a stealthed ranger, please kill it first" and similar things.

Mon 11 Feb 2019 3:54 PM by Numatic

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Feb 2019 3:02 PM
Jaegaer wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Feb 2019 2:41 PM
Bradekes wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Feb 2019 2:27 PM
What is wrong with controlled competition?
It also goes against the spirit of RvR - a realm war.

Not adding into a fight, or letting your realmmates die without helping also goes against the realm war...So are you advocating to forbid that behaviour? I guess not (and i agree that they should be allowed to do it, despite disliking it) so maybe ditch that argument...it doesn't work in your favor

DAoC already had an Arena-NPC and it wasn't used much because of a myriad of reason...the main reason though is that while the 8mans enjoy a tense 8vs8 that can go 15minutes, they enjoy farming noobs even more (or at least the gains). For a good 8man grp the only outcomes of a fight are:

a)farm the noobs
b)have a entertaining fight VS another group
c) getting added/zerged

OFCOURSE they want to get rid of c) completely, even though it is against everything that was "originally" the intent of DAoC: Realms fighting, not groups.

Not adding or letting realm mates die is a personal decision and doesnt have anything to do with circumventing in-game communication mechanics to organize fights. But then again it's up to the devs if they wish to allow it. Personally I'm against it for several reasons, but nobody cares about those if they have a differing opinion. Just their own.

Mon 11 Feb 2019 3:55 PM by caridry

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Feb 2019 3:50 PM
There have always been a couple different play styles and the clash of the 8v8 only people and those that either don't care for 8v8 at all or even those running with 8 but don't mind adding into other fights or getting added is always a topic.

Our rules are quite simple on that regard: no rp farming and no direct fight meetups in official channels.

Without the tasks certain zones / locations would just defacto become 8v8 locations and after a while it would become known for everyone and there wouldn't be any need for communication as everyone just knows that's the 8v8 zone. With the tasks however it's a bit more dynamic and hence it is at least somewhat expected that people will use some other discord to coordinate to designate a certain area / zone.

Nothing that happened here is against our rules: People are free to engage, disengange, not engage fights / enemies as they please. That includes disengaging an ongoing 8v8 and teaming up on an adding group of another realm.

On that note when it comes to 8v8 coordination what we would consider cross realming: telling (by any means) people of another realm "hey we have an add group following us" or "I'm sticking a stealthed ranger, please kill it first" and similar things.

Absolutely the answer I was looking for. Thank you very much. To clarify - would a group be safe to advise another group there is a meetup without fear of being reported? I know this touches a grey area, but in the case of this video, a simple "we are looking to 8v8 atm, back off" would have done wonders and avoided much confusion.

I just want everyone to be happy, I am not saying organizing is by any means that harmful. But I am sure you get what I am saying. Basically, and i know its hard, I dont want people to be jackasses about it.

Mon 11 Feb 2019 3:59 PM by

gruenesschaf

Informing other groups of their intention to do 8v8 is fine

Mon 11 Feb 2019 4:08 PM by Renork

There's nothing wrong with organized 8 mans trying to fight other organized 8 mans. Agramon was the "8 man" area for the longest time on live, so you guys can just designate an "unofficial" area here too or just rotate areas daily. Hopefully soloers also designate an "unofficial" solo area eventually (no dueling crap though) so that we can have all sorts of play styles encouraged and available.

Mon 11 Feb 2019 4:48 PM by Tree

Name of the game is RvR, I will always add any fight I see and I expect everyone else to add any fight I am in.

Anything else is not in the spirit of DAoC, espacially organized fights over discord.

But you cant stop people from doing it and policing any server rule in that regard would be impossible.

So yeah, people gotta do what they want.

Mon 11 Feb 2019 5:49 PM by opossum12

Who are to know what is the spirit of the game? You discussed with Mark Jacobs back in 2000 when they designed the game?

Let people play how they want as long as it follows the rules.

If I want to pull off a fight because I feel like my realm mates are dickheads that deserve to die, then it’s totally fine, just as much as you jamming everything on sight is.

Mon 11 Feb 2019 6:02 PM by Fk_

ITT: people from the 15s club trying to deny others to have fun.

Mon 11 Feb 2019 6:31 PM by Druth

I dislike this type of playstyle, and think it hurts the community feeling that DaoC classic had in the realms.

BUT, I also think it would be a hopeless task for the staff to police behavior like that, one I don't think they should waste time on.

Rules only work if they can be enforced, and a rule controlling stuff like this would mean an endless stream of appeals from people who felt/thought etc...

Tue 12 Feb 2019 7:21 AM by Civer

Cool, a 8vs8 topic. First time i read about that in more than 15 years of existing 8man groups.

But in fact, both playstyles can surely coexist in my opinion. And that 8vs8 groups probably avoid task zone is not really x realming, it's logic. And where they go to avoid the zergs, should be logical too.

Let all playstyles enjoy that great server.

Tue 12 Feb 2019 10:24 AM by Durgrim

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Feb 2019 3:59 PM
Informing other groups of their intention to do 8v8 is fine

Schaf, following that logic, 1on1 agreements would be allowed as well. And if one is constantly loosing, you would not call it RP farming?
I mean, there is stupid farming like not interacting and there is clever farming, where you deal at least some dmg

and here we are at 8on8....even here I already heard a couple of times in Discord that at time XX.XX we have half an hour to farm a Hib group, after that we log on different toons and get farmed for half an hour....

The problem is enforcing. And, basic leadership training, if you cannot enforce something, do not try and forbid it

If it is clear that a 8on8 engagement is not by accident and they regularly meet up at different places and kills each other, I would check the tells/chat interaction of group members and If I find evidence, that this was made up PvP, take off some Arrpeees and give em a nice warm warning aswell.

Okay, I think you already understood that I am not a big fan of 8on8 appointments

Tue 12 Feb 2019 2:24 PM by chryso

opossum12 wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Feb 2019 4:21 PM
it’s not rp farming is teying to play the game in a way you enjoy.

Just because it is playing the way you like does not mean it isn't also rp farming.

Tue 12 Feb 2019 7:05 PM by opossum12

chryso wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Feb 2019 2:24 PM
opossum12 wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Feb 2019 4:21 PM
it’s not rp farming is teying to play the game in a way you enjoy.

Just because it is playing the way you like does not mean it isn't also rp farming.

RP farming is deliberatly losing so that the other team gains RPs, and having the other team do the same.

Saying that you are roaming in an area exempt of zergs because you enjoy the smaller scale fights without getting jammed by 3,000 douchebags isn't RP farming.

Tue 12 Feb 2019 7:23 PM by chryso

opossum12 wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Feb 2019 7:05 PM
Saying that you are roaming in an area exempt of zergs because you enjoy the smaller scale fights without getting jammed by 3,000 douchebags isn't RP farming.

I think it is pretty obvious who the douchebag is and it aint the 3,000.

Tue 12 Feb 2019 7:26 PM by opossum12

chryso wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Feb 2019 7:23 PM
opossum12 wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Feb 2019 7:05 PM
Saying that you are roaming in an area exempt of zergs because you enjoy the smaller scale fights without getting jammed by 3,000 douchebags isn't RP farming.

I think it is pretty obvious who the douchebag is and it aint the 3,000.

I don't understand why you say that. You are the one that wants to prevent people to play a certain way because it is against how you think people should play the game (which is a total bias on your part), whereas I'm merely saying that people should be left alone as long as it isn't cheating.

Now, to define cheating, Gruenes very clearly defined what is cheating and what is not. And you call me the douchebag?

Tue 12 Feb 2019 7:35 PM by chryso

opossum12 wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Feb 2019 7:26 PM
chryso wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Feb 2019 7:23 PM
opossum12 wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Feb 2019 7:05 PM
Saying that you are roaming in an area exempt of zergs because you enjoy the smaller scale fights without getting jammed by 3,000 douchebags isn't RP farming.

I think it is pretty obvious who the douchebag is and it aint the 3,000.

I don't understand why you say that. You are the one that wants to prevent people to play a certain way because it is against how you think people should play the game (which is a total bias on your part), whereas I'm merely saying that people should be left alone as long as it isn't cheating.

Now, to define cheating, Gruenes very clearly defined what is cheating and what is not. And you call me the douchebag?

I only replied to your douchebag comment in the spirit it was made. You are claiming that the zerg is nothing but douchebags. You started the name calling and you are unhappy with being called the same name that you called people who are playing differently. I am just putting the shoe on the other foot.

Honestly, the only thing I saw in this thread that I considered cheating, and I am not saying it was you, was someone telling the other realm not to engage and that there is a group behind them.

Tue 12 Feb 2019 7:59 PM by opossum12

chryso wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Feb 2019 7:35 PM
opossum12 wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Feb 2019 7:26 PM
chryso wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Feb 2019 7:23 PM
I think it is pretty obvious who the douchebag is and it aint the 3,000.

I don't understand why you say that. You are the one that wants to prevent people to play a certain way because it is against how you think people should play the game (which is a total bias on your part), whereas I'm merely saying that people should be left alone as long as it isn't cheating.

Now, to define cheating, Gruenes very clearly defined what is cheating and what is not. And you call me the douchebag?

I only replied to your douchebag comment in the spirit it was made. You are claiming that the zerg is nothing but douchebags. You started the name calling and you are unhappy with being called the same name that you called people who are playing differently. I am just putting the shoe on the other foot.

Honestly, the only thing I saw in this thread that I considered cheating, and I am not saying it was you, was someone telling the other realm not to engage and that there is a group behind them.

I did resort to name calling, and yes I agree that what you described is cheating.

Wed 13 Feb 2019 8:21 PM by caridry

Request to lock thread as concerns have been properly addressed with rules.

Thu 14 Feb 2019 9:26 PM by deam0

OP glad you understand now, some people feel their game experience is ruined when people jump in on 8v8 fights, some people feel their experience is ruined when people don't help them Xv8. Dye as 8, die as 8. Cya out there good luck!