Offhand Weapon Speed vs Damage - Looking for an Official Answer

Apologies if this has been answered.
I'm just trying to find out, as I know that a quick Offhand is best, but exactly how quick do we want?
I'm talking for an Infil, not that it really matters. But I have a 100% Dirk with 2.2spd
Is this too fast? Or does the speed make it so it hits with offhand more often?
I do know that the offhand chance to hit is defined by your Dual Wield spec, but how much of that chance/hit is defined by the weapon speed also.

Mon 11 Mar 2019 10:58 PM by Afuldan

lohk wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Mar 2019 10:53 PM
Apologies if this has been answered.
I'm just trying to find out, as I know that a quick Offhand is best, but exactly how quick do we want?
I'm talking for an Infil, not that it really matters. But I have a 100% Dirk with 2.2spd
Is this too fast? Or does the speed make it so it hits with offhand more often?
I do know that the offhand chance to hit is defined by your Dual Wield spec, but how much of that chance/hit is defined by the weapon speed also.

The chance to attack is only affected by DW spec afaik. The faster your offhand, when it does attack, the higher effect of haste on your mainhand weapon, which should be as slow as possible to gain the most haste effect from your fast offhand.

When the offhand swings, you get a haste bonus equal to what your average weapon speed is.

3.9 MH + 2.2 OH = 6.1/2 = 3.05 swing speed when both swing, not including Quick/Haste bonuses.

Unless I COMPLETELY misunderstand DW.

Mon 11 Mar 2019 11:19 PM by lohk

Afuldan wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Mar 2019 10:58 PM
lohk wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Mar 2019 10:53 PM
Apologies if this has been answered.
I'm just trying to find out, as I know that a quick Offhand is best, but exactly how quick do we want?
I'm talking for an Infil, not that it really matters. But I have a 100% Dirk with 2.2spd
Is this too fast? Or does the speed make it so it hits with offhand more often?
I do know that the offhand chance to hit is defined by your Dual Wield spec, but how much of that chance/hit is defined by the weapon speed also.

The chance to attack is only affected by DW spec afaik. The faster your offhand, when it does attack, the higher effect of haste on your mainhand weapon, which should be as slow as possible to gain the most haste effect from your fast offhand.

When the offhand swings, you get a haste bonus equal to what your average weapon speed is.

3.9 MH + 2.2 OH = 6.1/2 = 3.05 swing speed when both swing, not including Quick/Haste bonuses.

Unless I COMPLETELY misunderstand DW.

Interesting. So a 2.2 OH would be okay? Reason I ask is I got a ROG one with 80 util 100%. So it's quite nice and will save me lots of money/feathers building the temp as a starter temp.

Tue 12 Mar 2019 1:02 AM by Afuldan

lohk wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Mar 2019 11:19 PM
Afuldan wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Mar 2019 10:58 PM
lohk wrote: ↑
Mon 11 Mar 2019 10:53 PM
Apologies if this has been answered.
I'm just trying to find out, as I know that a quick Offhand is best, but exactly how quick do we want?
I'm talking for an Infil, not that it really matters. But I have a 100% Dirk with 2.2spd
Is this too fast? Or does the speed make it so it hits with offhand more often?
I do know that the offhand chance to hit is defined by your Dual Wield spec, but how much of that chance/hit is defined by the weapon speed also.

The chance to attack is only affected by DW spec afaik. The faster your offhand, when it does attack, the higher effect of haste on your mainhand weapon, which should be as slow as possible to gain the most haste effect from your fast offhand.

When the offhand swings, you get a haste bonus equal to what your average weapon speed is.

3.9 MH + 2.2 OH = 6.1/2 = 3.05 swing speed when both swing, not including Quick/Haste bonuses.

Unless I COMPLETELY misunderstand DW.

Interesting. So a 2.2 OH would be okay? Reason I ask is I got a ROG one with 80 util 100%. So it's quite nice and will save me lots of money/feathers building the temp as a starter temp.

Eh. You won’t be able to swap your OH to reapply poisons plus that weapon will drop to 0 Durability fairly fast, and won’t be replaceable, which means you’ll be redoing a template. If that doesn’t bother you, go for it.

Tue 12 Mar 2019 1:06 AM by waffel

The raw basics:

Maihand swing speed + offhand swing speed / 2

4.0 main, 2.0 offhand = 3.0 swing speed

But, with quickness and MORE IMPORTANTLY haste buffs from pots and charge, if you run a slow mainhand and fast offhand, with too much haste and quickness you lose damage because you’re going to pass a 1.5 swing speed cap. So instead of swinging at 1.45 with average damage you’ll be 1.5 swing speed with lower damage.

Keep in mind, with both weapons slow or one fast and one slow, you aren’t ‘gaining’ damage. It all averages out. If you’re expecting to be running up against a lot of stealthers, it might make sense to not be swinging your unstyled offhand into evades that have reactionaries.

Wed 20 Mar 2019 6:15 AM by tweedledumb99

waffel wrote: ↑
Tue 12 Mar 2019 1:06 AM
The raw basics:

Maihand swing speed + offhand swing speed / 2

4.0 main, 2.0 offhand = 3.0 swing speed

But, with quickness and MORE IMPORTANTLY haste buffs from pots and charge, if you run a slow mainhand and fast offhand, with too much haste and quickness you lose damage because you’re going to pass a 1.5 swing speed cap. So instead of swinging at 1.45 with average damage you’ll be 1.5 swing speed with lower damage.

Keep in mind, with both weapons slow or one fast and one slow, you aren’t ‘gaining’ damage. It all averages out. If you’re expecting to be running up against a lot of stealthers, it might make sense to not be swinging your unstyled offhand into evades that have reactionaries.

Assuming the weapon speed calcs ive seen are right, youd need a lot of quickness, plus like 20% haste, plus some mastery of arms for overcapping spd to be an issue here.

Talsyra's calc is showing that with a 4.1 mainhand, 2.2 offhand, 250 qui, 20% haste, mastery of arms 3(? Dunno what the equivalent is for phoenix as talsyra does 1-5 not 1-9, but lets call it MoArms 3 for Phoen), you'd still be above the swing speed cap (barely).

Who runs a visi/stealth with regular access to 20% haste, a 4.1 main (normal) with uberfast 2.2 offhand (unlikely to be this fast, but technically possible) and 250 qui fully buffed in a reasonable group/solo setup?

Another way to say it: if you're an inconnu infiltrator or nightshade who runs a 2.2 offhand, you run regularly in a visi grp with full purple buffs, you run 20% haste procs, and have mastery of arms 3, then worry about spd overcaps. Anyone else who wields two weapons at once likely wont need to worry, as long as your mainhand is slow.