Now that Volley is useless, can we have an unnerfed Critshot?

Volley is due to the recent changes not worth 8 pts anymore,
augmenting the uselessness of Bow oriented Warfare even further.

When the Phoenix server went live, the devs decided to only give a nerfed version of critshot to the archers of all realms:
Crit-Immunity for 15 seconds to prevent targets from being shot by multiple crits.
This was and is a totally custom change. It has never been that way on live-servers back in the days of old archery.
Double critting the target was the bread & butter for the successful archer back in those days.

In my humble opinion it is about time, that you do something to augment the usefulness of bow spec, and not to nerf it even more by gutting its only useful RA, namely Volley.
We all know, that longshot was always useless, now volley is too.

Do away with the Crit-immunity would be a reasonable move into the right direction.

Please consider this.

Thank you and Namaste.

Sun 2 Jun 2019 7:20 PM by stinsfire

Wait what??? They nerfed volley and didnt touch TWF and Maelstrom.. two RAs that constantly decide keepfights and kill whole zergs by pressing one button.

Can any of the devs explain the logic behind that to me?

I used volley for a couple of weeks now and it felt very meh even in keep fights. So I decided to respec my RAs today before reading this.. guess that makes my decision easier

Sun 2 Jun 2019 8:16 PM by Beren

stinsfire wrote: ↑
Sun 2 Jun 2019 7:20 PM
Wait what??? They nerfed volley and didnt touch TWF and Maelstrom.. two RAs that constantly decide keepfights and kill whole zergs by pressing one button.

Can any of the devs explain the logic behind that to me?

I used volley for a couple of weeks now and it felt very meh even in keep fights. So I decided to respec my RAs today before reading this.. guess that makes my decision easier

Volley was only good, when in a siege. You could try to hit something, while the rams were doing their work. It's still a guess, where the right spot for your gt might be at, but sometimes you got 'em. Sometimes you even killed soft targets with it, that didn't or couldn't move.
But there are roofs in those castles, so ...... no more.

5.0 seconds drawtime in a normal rvr-situation and setting up a gt is just too slow to do anything other than exposing yourself to the enemy in order to be killed.
For 8 Realmpoints....

Faith in the capability and the farsightedness of a developer is a valuable commodity.
Where is the use of this RA now?
It appears to me, that this last question wasn't asked before making that change and that is what makes me afraid.

Sun 2 Jun 2019 8:50 PM by keen

Beren wrote: ↑
Sun 2 Jun 2019 7:13 PM
Crit-Immunity for 15 seconds to prevent targets from being shot by multiple crits.
This was and is a totally custom change. It has never been that way on live-servers back in the days of old archery.

I would argue that was a buff to archer classes. It is very easy to circumvent being critshoted with the live like system, like being in combat or sprinting. So it is very situational if you call that a buff or nerf. Since everyone is sprinting in rvr I would call the phoenix implementation a buff and not a nerf since you can't prevent being crit shoted here

Sun 2 Jun 2019 8:59 PM by Beren

I have the feeling, which would need testing, that it is not even working the way, they claim it does.
There were some occassions, when i asked myself, didn't i crit the target and it was just a normal shot, that hit.
WIll watch that.

But still they could just have deleted the Volley-RA and that is not exactly good game design.

Sun 2 Jun 2019 9:07 PM by Fooj Fujiyama

I think a player can only be crit shot once every 15 seconds or something? There is a chance that someone else crit shot them before you maybe if it was a zerg fight.

Sun 2 Jun 2019 9:20 PM by stinsfire

Beren wrote: ↑
Sun 2 Jun 2019 8:16 PM
Faith in the capability and the farsightedness of a developer is a valuable commodity.
Where is the use of this RA now?
It appears to me, that this last question wasn't asked before making that change and that is what makes me afraid.

This is not the first time I have that feeling.

Sun 2 Jun 2019 11:53 PM by Anelyn77

I don't see it as a nerf myself, and been using it (and convincing guildies / friends to try it as well) extensively for past few days. Being able to hit with it peeps with a roof above their heads made no sense. Changing GT while firing volley also is not a biggy, you can stop using it if you hit nothing with 2 arrows, restealth, move GT and do it again.

Should archers get some compensation for it? Sure. Like a free RA respec. Or a minor dmg increase to bow dmg (like 5-10% top). But that about it - from my PoV.

Don't get me wrong, I know all 3 archers are in a rather bad spot compared to what we played on live. Ranger is the only one that can make melee work successfully due to CD, hunter needs very slow spear to get any consistent dmg out and gl landing 2 hits in a row on a competent player that knows what they are doing (also spear WS already being low at 39 even 44 spec, is also affected by sins str/con debuff and WS debuff so they will evade like no tomorrow even with pet on them), and scouts never had a strong melee nor will they ever do (yeah good if you stay on top of a caster with no mezz or stun, as you don't really care about root).

Personally - again - would like us to become more archers than hybrid range / melee archetype we are now. Time will tell if something will come our way or not, until then I will still enjoy my sniping / stalker / siege playstyle.

Cheers all <3

Mon 3 Jun 2019 12:14 AM by Beren

Anelyn77 wrote: ↑
Sun 2 Jun 2019 11:53 PM
I don't see it as a nerf myself, and been using it (and convincing guildies / friends to try it as well) extensively for past few days. Being able to hit with it peeps with a roof above their heads made no sense. Changing GT while firing volley also is not a biggy, you can stop using it if you hit nothing with 2 arrows, restealth, move GT and do it again.

Should archers get some compensation for it? Sure. Like a free RA respec. Or a minor dmg increase to bow dmg (like 5-10% top). But that about it - from my PoV.

Don't get me wrong, I know all 3 archers are in a rather bad spot compared to what we played on live. Ranger is the only one that can make melee work successfully due to CD, hunter needs very slow spear to get any consistent dmg out and gl landing 2 hits in a row on a competent player that knows what they are doing (also spear WS already being low at 39 even 44 spec, is also affected by sins str/con debuff and WS debuff so they will evade like no tomorrow even with pet on them), and scouts never had a strong melee nor will they ever do (yeah good if you stay on top of a caster with no mezz or stun, as you don't really care about root).

Personally - again - would like us to become more archers than hybrid range / melee archetype we are now. Time will tell if something will come our way or not, until then I will still enjoy my sniping / stalker / siege playstyle.

Cheers all <3

Now with the changes you cannot move gt anymore, when you don't hit anything. That's part of the change.
It does make no sense to hit ppl with a roof above their head with volley, that's true, if you relate a real world understanding to daoc.
But then again there's magic, that can do anything, right. TWF hitting through anything and hitting gates - it's magic!
But arrows, that are so much more realistic, they have to behave realistically, right?

The point is:
The volley RA for 8 realmpoints is useless now. No one will use it anymore.

What kind of game design is this?

Mon 3 Jun 2019 12:55 AM by Anelyn77

Aye I said am fine with unable to relocate GT during same volley activation, because CD is so low 15s, I never reloc my GT with volley even before this charge, would just stop firing or finish firing, then move GT.

Also us being able to hit or not peeps in lord room for example or tower, it's not relevant and does nothing to help the Raid compared to TWF or NM placed at that location (we fire 1 arrow to hit a random target, every 1s for max 5 arrows, that's it). Realistic speaking we don't really have tools like other classes to hit several peeps (for damage, rupts or to get rps), we're single target no matter how we look at it (skills and RA's combined).

Should we get something for this adjustment / fix to volley? Something minor as I said previously yes. Could archers (all 3 on all 3 realms) get some buffs - to archery only - for sure! Kind of needed. But that's up to devs to decide when and how and what to do about it. I love archers, but I still wouldn't call Volley useless or not worth the points.

/cheers!

Mon 3 Jun 2019 2:18 AM by gotwqqd

So does this crit shot immunity only affect bow crit shot?
Seems a bit much to hamper archers working together but casters have no restrictions

Mon 3 Jun 2019 4:25 AM by AngelRose

gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Mon 3 Jun 2019 2:18 AM
So does this crit shot immunity only affect bow crit shot?
Seems a bit much to hamper archers working together but casters have no restrictions

Though I agree crit shot should be looked at, this comparison is not valid. You can see casters, and have a chance to interrupt, avoid, etc. There is nothing you can do to avoid grouped stealthers assisting on crit shots.

Mon 3 Jun 2019 8:27 AM by Hejjin

Anelyn77 wrote: ↑
Mon 3 Jun 2019 12:55 AM
snip...
Also us being able to hit or not peeps in lord room for example or tower, it's not relevant and does nothing to help the Raid compared to TWF or NM placed at that location
snip...
/cheers!

I do not believe that is accurate, I have been on keep defences where multiple archers using volley have resulted in a number of deaths inside the tower, unlike TWF, there is no 10 minute cooldown, I also spent a large amount of time during Molvik event on the siege catapults on top of the Albion tower, the attacking archers did a huge amount of damage with volley. At the weekend I was inside Surs on my Friar, there were only a small number of defenders inside the tower, getting peppered with multiple volleys took its toll, especially when sitting to try to regain power after resurrecting people. The above being said, I am not convinced that volley causes as much problems as Animists placing their shrooms on top of walls or in windows in keeps during large sieges.

I have a Scout, so I realise how much of a change this is and have long thought that archers need some love, and not nerfs.

Mon 3 Jun 2019 1:34 PM by Horus

Just remove volley and give archers access to a flavor of TWF with a diff dmg type or something. Call it Arrow Field and make it pierce dmg but behave in the exact same way as TWF. Problem solved.

Mon 3 Jun 2019 1:57 PM by Kappu

Anelyn77 wrote: ↑
Sun 2 Jun 2019 11:53 PM
I don't see it as a nerf myself, and been using it (and convincing guildies / friends to try it as well) extensively for past few days. Being able to hit with it peeps with a roof above their heads made no sense. Changing GT while firing volley also is not a biggy, you can stop using it if you hit nothing with 2 arrows, restealth, move GT and do it again.

Should archers get some compensation for it? Sure. Like a free RA respec. Or a minor dmg increase to bow dmg (like 5-10% top). But that about it - from my PoV.

Don't get me wrong, I know all 3 archers are in a rather bad spot compared to what we played on live. Ranger is the only one that can make melee work successfully due to CD,hunter needs very slow spear to get any consistent dmg out and gl landing 2 hits in a row on a competent player that knows what they are doing (also spear WS already being low at 39 even 44 spec, is also affected by sins str/con debuff and WS debuff so they will evade like no tomorrow even with pet on them), and scouts never had a strong melee nor will they ever do (yeah good if you stay on top of a caster with no mezz or stun, as you don't really care about root).

Personally - again - would like us to become more archers than hybrid range / melee archetype we are now. Time will tell if something will come our way or not, until then I will still enjoy my sniping / stalker / siege playstyle.

Cheers all <3

Have you played a Hunter? I mean I'm having no issues landing 2 styles in a row and the pet is great since the small buff it got......... Hunter melee is pretty good right now and the only issue with Mid sneaks is not being able to access a damage type that their counterparts are weak against.

Archery IMO is kinda garbage, but even in its current state, I've been having fun with it. Here are my thoughts on some things that need to be fixed with Archery

- Fix it so that if you are composite 50 Archery you don't randomly un-stelath when queuing up a critshot......
- Remove any immunity timer on critshot it's got a long queue time so let the Archer decide if he wants to double crit, regular shot or rapid fire a target.
- Give Archery damage a small buff since it's not even worth going beyond 30-35 Archery currently it's sad that 50 Archery for the spec points only has like 15-20 damage increase.
- Add something to the actual Archery spec line, so that it's beneficial because honestly Penetrating Arrow (I consistently get misses 100% on this thing) isn't that great and Rapid Fire is really not worth specing up to 45 Archery.

I do wonder does anyone know what the actual definitions are for Penetrating Arrow 1 and 2 and Rapid Fire 1 and 2? I'm curious the difference and I'm being lazy and don't want to Google it, but would rather engage a conversation here.

Mon 3 Jun 2019 1:58 PM by stinsfire

Horus wrote: ↑
Mon 3 Jun 2019 1:34 PM
Just remove volley and give archers access to a flavor of TWF with a diff dmg type or something. Call it Arrow Field and make it pierce dmg but behave in the exact same way as TWF. Problem solved.

You could put volley into archery line at 45 or 50 for those who really dont care about their melee and want to be pure archers and replace volle RA with Rain of Arrows(better name imho). Even the nerfed version would be an awesome incentive to go for 40+

Kappu wrote: ↑
Mon 3 Jun 2019 1:57 PM
I do wonder does anyone know what the actual definitions are for Penetrating Arrow 1 and 2 and Rapid Fire 1 and 2? I'm curious the difference and I'm being lazy and don't want to Google it, but would rather engage a conversation here.

From what I remember the only difference between 1 and 2 is the endurance cost which is a non-factor on Phoenix due to everyone having near unlimited endu.

Mon 3 Jun 2019 2:09 PM by Kappu

stinsfire wrote: ↑
Mon 3 Jun 2019 1:58 PM
I do wonder does anyone know what the actual definitions are for Penetrating Arrow 1 and 2 and Rapid Fire 1 and 2? I'm curious the difference and I'm being lazy and don't want to Google it, but would rather engage a conversation here.

From what I remember the only difference between 1 and 2 is the endurance cost which is a non-factor on Phoenix due to everyone having near unlimited endu.
[/quote]

Well, that isn't really much of a benefit if you are wasting spec points to get there......

I went ahead because I'm curious like a cat and looked at Penetrating Arrow and it's kinda a crap deal. It only penetrates BT that is cast on a character so anyone with a self BT will just avoid the first shot. It reduces the damage at level 1 to 50% if they have a BT cast on them and you get full damage at level 2. I'd say that a good QOL change would be to make it do 50%/100% on self-cast BT (so you actually get a benefit from it) and not reduce any damage on targets who are given a BT spell.

I don't mind it in its current state since I usually have another Hunter who pops the BT anyway, but anyone wanting to play a solo Archer really gets boned.

Does anyone recall if you are in combat you can't be crit shot either? I knew they had the immunity thing, but I believe it also used to be that if a target was in combat they couldn't be crit either.

Mon 3 Jun 2019 2:29 PM by Glimmer

Make volley like it was on uthgard v1
Fast bow draw time, 1s each release of volley shot.
at 35 lvl,40,45,50lvl(bow spec) that hit random players in gtarea without stupid minimum range requirement(66% bow range minimum), or make it regular gtaoe ability like casters got.

Mon 3 Jun 2019 3:05 PM by Anelyn77

@kappu

Yes am mainly playing my huntress, 4l1 now. I use a 3.9 spear, to get my 2 chain snare off fast, or stun into AS debuff and then kite. If you want dmg out of spear, you use a 5.0 spear, which swings way slower than 3.9 (mind you am 261 qui self buffed, and yes I know qui over 250 does nothing to melee, but still helps with evade chance). I can do back stun into snare chain and already move away from target before they are unstunned if they don't purge with 3.9, can't do that with 5.0spd.

Also getting parried / blocked / evaded with 5.0spd is more detrimental due to slower swing speed.

As you did read / quote my post, please notice that I never said melee isn't viable with IP2 or higher and some melee RA's, I just don't like the playstyle of needing 15 min CD to win if am fighting someone (and what I said about low WS / dmg especially after being debuffed with str and WS/con poison is a fact - sure you can purge after stun and if they are newbies and don't instantly reapply, good for you).

Add on top of that the fact that solo / non-adding stealthers is a rare sight and being in melee range your options are very limited vs 2 or more attackers.

At least that is my personal view, and my personal playstyle, would love some archery buffs (for all 3 archers). RF2 just consumes less endu per shot, and Pene shot is useless unless you're shooting a warden / pbt theurg pretty much.

Crit shot immunity - lower to 5-7s. Removing it completely would encourage archers groups to 1 hit assist kill anyone in RvR which is not what we want.

Maybe add a semi-MoC for archers, 5-6 pts RA, active 5 min reuse, your bow shots can't be interrupted for 6-10s. Because long shot is really bad for amount of points spent to get it, at least if it dealt increased dmg with distance traveled or something.

/Cheers!

Mon 3 Jun 2019 3:51 PM by Bumbles

keen wrote: ↑
Sun 2 Jun 2019 8:50 PM
Beren wrote: ↑
Sun 2 Jun 2019 7:13 PM
Crit-Immunity for 15 seconds to prevent targets from being shot by multiple crits.
This was and is a totally custom change. It has never been that way on live-servers back in the days of old archery.

I would argue that was a buff to archer classes. It is very easy to circumvent being critshoted with the live like system, like being in combat or sprinting. So it is very situational if you call that a buff or nerf. Since everyone is sprinting in rvr I would call the phoenix implementation a buff and not a nerf since you can't prevent being crit shoted here

haha are you just pulling things out of your ass? Sprinting on live does nothing to prevent being crit shot and you can't "put yourself" in combat either. Please tell me you don't think pulling out your weapon is putting yourself in combat...

Mon 3 Jun 2019 4:18 PM by jwalker

I'm actually liking the archer system atm (yes shame on me). However, I'm playing a hybrid spec and I think archery for the 33-35 points invested is quite nice. I would like to see some impovements for higher specs so, as I think full archery is just way too weak.

1) Buff penetrating arrow
Level 1 (30): make it so it does 50% of the damage on normal bubble and 25% on self bubble (not a chance to pierce it, just damage is reduced to 25%).
Level 2 (40): 100% vs. normal pbt, 50% of the damage vs. self bubble

2) Rapid Fire 2 (spec 45) deals 60% of the normal shot damage

3) Crit shot can't be evaded or blocked if shot from stealth

That would be more than enough IMO

Mon 3 Jun 2019 4:50 PM by Kappu

Anelyn77 wrote: ↑
Mon 3 Jun 2019 3:05 PM
@kappu

Yes am mainly playing my huntress, 4l1 now. I use a 3.9 spear, to get my 2 chain snare off fast, or stun into AS debuff and then kite. If you want dmg out of spear, you use a 5.0 spear, which swings way slower than 3.9 (mind you am 261 qui self buffed, and yes I know qui over 250 does nothing to melee, but still helps with evade chance). I can do back stun into snare chain and already move away from target before they are unstunned if they don't purge with 3.9, can't do that with 5.0spd.

Also getting parried / blocked / evaded with 5.0spd is more detrimental due to slower swing speed.

As you did read / quote my post, please notice that I never said melee isn't viable with IP2 or higher and some melee RA's, I just don't like the playstyle of needing 15 min CD to win if am fighting someone (and what I said about low WS / dmg especially after being debuffed with str and WS/con poison is a fact - sure you can purge after stun and if they are newbies and don't instantly reapply, good for you).

Add on top of that the fact that solo / non-adding stealthers is a rare sight and being in melee range your options are very limited vs 2 or more attackers.

/Cheers!

I think that playing that style is why you are suffering in melee combat and I've not needed IP to stand toe to toe with any of the other assassins or archers..... I bolded a statement you made and would ask that you point me to the statistically or stated evidence that you get increased parry/block/evade rates due to weapon speed I have never read this in all my years playing DAoC. Not trying to start a flame war generally curious where you get this statement from.

Weaponspeed affects your frontload damage and if you are going to a 3.9 and capping swing speed I don't know that you are making up the DoT by not just using a 5.0-5.5 Spear. This being said I'm sure it is way easier to land your rear style from the front of someone since the timing is easier.

3.9 Spear is hitting at 2.08
5.0 Spear is hitting at 2.66
5.5 Spear is hitting at 2.90

You get one extra swing for every 2 swings on a 5.5 spear I'd be interested to see what your DoT is not including misses/evade/parry/block rates just for a general damage over 3 given swings test.

/goodhunting

Vixxenn 5L1 Hunter

Mon 3 Jun 2019 5:19 PM by Kappu

So if you use this formula:

TWOHANDBONUS = 1.10 + 0.005 * SPEC
or = 1.00 if it's no two-handed weapons at all.

DPS = [[[[[WEAPON_DPS * WEAPON_SPEED * 10]
* (0.94 + WEAPON_SPEED * 0.03)]
* (1 + 0.01 * MYTHICALDPS)]
* TWOHANDBONUS]
* (1 + 0.01 * TOA_MELEE_DAMAGE] / 10

5.5 Speed = 133 DPS and if you disregard the Mythical and TOA bonus calculations it's 130 DPS.

3.9 Speed = 90.5 DPS and if you disregard the Mythical and TOA bonus calculations it's 88.7 DPS

These are game formulas released by Mythic and my point here is that you are able to time your swings easier I'm sure, but you are losing 43 DPS by using a fast spear.

It's also worth mentioning I used this as a base weapon spec of 41 since that is my spec and I didn't add in +skill from items or RA.

Mon 3 Jun 2019 6:06 PM by Anelyn77

I did not say there is an increase chance in being parried/ evaded / blocked, just that when it happens, it sucks when using a slow weapon vs fast one. That's all

You just put it in a different context.

Am not trying to argue with you by any means, I shared my impressions based on my playstyle which I enjoy and it works for me. I never said you can't play more melee focused hunter and be successful, I just want archery to have a bit more OOMPF behind it (be it RA's or base dmg or abilities you learn by speccing higher in bow).

That's all <3

Mon 3 Jun 2019 6:56 PM by Kappu

Anelyn77 wrote: ↑
Mon 3 Jun 2019 6:06 PM
I did not say there is an increase chance in being parried/ evaded / blocked, just that when it happens, it sucks when using a slow weapon vs fast one. That's all You just put it in a different context.

Am not trying to argue with you by any means, I shared my impressions based on my playstyle which I enjoy and it works for me. I never said you can't play more melee focused hunter and be successful, I just want archery to have a bit more OOMPF behind it (be it RA's or base dmg or abilities you learn by speccing higher in bow).

That's all <3

My apologies for reading it that way.

I agree I'd like to see Archery be a little more enticing to spec into beyond 35 so that people could play a Hunter like a full Archer if they wanted.

Mon 3 Jun 2019 8:52 PM by keen

Bumbles wrote: ↑
Mon 3 Jun 2019 3:51 PM
keen wrote: ↑
Sun 2 Jun 2019 8:50 PM
Beren wrote: ↑
Sun 2 Jun 2019 7:13 PM
Crit-Immunity for 15 seconds to prevent targets from being shot by multiple crits.
This was and is a totally custom change. It has never been that way on live-servers back in the days of old archery.

I would argue that was a buff to archer classes. It is very easy to circumvent being critshoted with the live like system, like being in combat or sprinting. So it is very situational if you call that a buff or nerf. Since everyone is sprinting in rvr I would call the phoenix implementation a buff and not a nerf since you can't prevent being crit shoted here

haha are you just pulling things out of your ass? Sprinting on live does nothing to prevent being crit shot and you can't "put yourself" in combat either. Please tell me you don't think pulling out your weapon is putting yourself in combat...

I don't know, before asking me if I pull things out my ass maybe you should get your facts straight?
You can read up the mechanics here
http://talsyra.tripod.com/daocmechanics/archery_bow_mechanics.html
I quote:

Critical shot will not work against targets that are: running, in active combat (swinging at something), or mezzed.

I don't recall writing that you can put yourself in active combat by pulling out your weapon.

Mon 3 Jun 2019 8:59 PM by Bumbles

keen wrote: ↑
Mon 3 Jun 2019 8:52 PM
Bumbles wrote: ↑
Mon 3 Jun 2019 3:51 PM
keen wrote: ↑
Sun 2 Jun 2019 8:50 PM
I would argue that was a buff to archer classes. It is very easy to circumvent being critshoted with the live like system, like being in combat or sprinting. So it is very situational if you call that a buff or nerf. Since everyone is sprinting in rvr I would call the phoenix implementation a buff and not a nerf since you can't prevent being crit shoted here

haha are you just pulling things out of your ass? Sprinting on live does nothing to prevent being crit shot and you can't "put yourself" in combat either. Please tell me you don't think pulling out your weapon is putting yourself in combat...
I don't know, before asking me if I pull things out my ass maybe you should get your facts straight?
You can read up the mechanics here
http://talsyra.tripod.com/daocmechanics/archery_bow_mechanics.html
I quote:
Critical shot will not work against targets that are: running, in active combat (swinging at something), or mezzed.
I don't recall writing that you can put yourself in active combat by pulling out your weapon.

Haha. You purposefully quote saying Crit Shot won't work vs players that are running!?!?! You realize that every target is actively running, correct? I can tell you have never played an Archer and if you have you are blindly following some archaic article not even written my Mythic/broadsword/EA claiming they are "facts".

This is middle America at it's best.

Mon 3 Jun 2019 9:05 PM by stinsfire

Bumbles wrote: ↑
Mon 3 Jun 2019 8:59 PM
keen wrote: ↑
Mon 3 Jun 2019 8:52 PM
Bumbles wrote: ↑
Mon 3 Jun 2019 3:51 PM
haha are you just pulling things out of your ass? Sprinting on live does nothing to prevent being crit shot and you can't "put yourself" in combat either. Please tell me you don't think pulling out your weapon is putting yourself in combat...
I don't know, before asking me if I pull things out my ass maybe you should get your facts straight?
You can read up the mechanics here
http://talsyra.tripod.com/daocmechanics/archery_bow_mechanics.html
I quote:
Critical shot will not work against targets that are: running, in active combat (swinging at something), or mezzed.
I don't recall writing that you can put yourself in active combat by pulling out your weapon.

Haha. You purposefully quote saying Crit Shot won't work vs players that are running!?!?! You realize that every target is actively running, correct? I can tell you have never played an Archer and if you have you are blindly following some archaic article not even written my Mythic/broadsword/EA claiming they are "facts".

This is middle America at it's best.

My Antivirus says the site contains malicious code btw

And critshot not working against mezzed targets... lmao.. who wrote that article? Was that beta or what? I cannot remember mezz ever negating critshot

Mon 3 Jun 2019 11:11 PM by Beren

There is no need to ridicule keen. He made a point, that can be discussed in a serious manner and please without needlessly attacking the person.
We are here because we all care about archery on phoenix, aren't we.

And in the old days with old archery critshot had those limitations, that you couldn't land it on running targets or targets in combat. You could shoot mezzed targets though, there seems to be a mistake on that site. So his point is absolutely worth of discussing, whether the current version of critshot, allthough with immunity-timer wasn't even better than that old restricted version in old archery for critshot.
I'd say no, because it is harder to get kills with crithot-immunity, even if you would have lesser situations, where it would land.

BUT that's not my point:
My point is, that the only useful active Bow related RA, which was volley, now is not useful enough anymore to spend 8 pts for it. You can volley certain parts of a keep, which ppl will ofc figure out and stay away from. Other than that you could possibly make successful use of the volley ability during a standoff at the milegates.....which we all know, don't happen anymore. There is no other use of it.

It was good before in those siege situations, no one complained about it, bc it hadn't a huge impact, but nonetheless it got nerfed into uselessness.
The aspect of being able to move the gt after having drawn the volley, maybe had to be adressed. On the other hand in those areas, where it was questionable to use volley, it already was forbidden to make use of it, so even that wasn't a big thing anymore.

Still no answer, where the use of Volley is supposed to be now.
I doubt we will get an answer, the question is just too uncomfortable to answer or there is no good answer.

I am passionate about the game and archery so please don't think, i wasn't very, very grateful for the unbelievable awesome work,
that the devs did by creating and developing this server.
This is probably our last best hope for a long-lasting awesome classic DAOC.

Let's make this server allltogether even more awesome, so that it might last until i can play here from my seat in the retirement castle.
Sometimes this means a little criticism also has to be done.

All the best to Phoenix!
Namaste

Tue 4 Jun 2019 11:18 AM by keen

Well it is pretty ridicoulus that they attack me while they are wrong and dont know that sprinting would make you immune to being crit shoted. I guess they are just trolling.
Anyway if you are looking for 1v1 as an Archer the current system is a buff for you in my opinion since your opponent cant avoid being crit shoted. If you want to add fights and have multiple critshots on casting targets or running with the stealth zerg and multiple archers, sure that is a nerf.
So depends on the situtation as I said before.

Tue 4 Jun 2019 12:12 PM by Sepplord

keen wrote: ↑
Tue 4 Jun 2019 11:18 AM
Well it is pretty ridicoulus that they attack me while they are wrong and dont know that sprinting would make you immune to being crit shoted. I guess they are just trolling.
Anyway if you are looking for 1v1 as an Archer the current system is a buff for you in my opinion since your opponent cant avoid being crit shoted. If you want to add fights and have multiple critshots on casting targets or running with the stealth zerg and multiple archers, sure that is a nerf.
So depends on the situtation as I said before.

in general i agree with you, but don't forget that back when critshotting a sprinting target was not possible, people weren't permasprinting and didn't have easy access to endurance-reg neither. Not even groups travelled with speed6 (yes i know there were exceptions).

Tue 4 Jun 2019 12:22 PM by Lev

Beren wrote: ↑
Mon 3 Jun 2019 11:11 PM
And in the old days with old archery critshot had those limitations, that you couldn't land it on running targets or targets in combat. You could shoot mezzed targets though, there seems to be a mistake on that site. So his point is absolutely worth of discussing, whether the current version of critshot, allthough with immunity-timer wasn't even better than that old restricted version in old archery for critshot.
I'd say no, because it is harder to get kills with crithot-immunity, even if you would have lesser situations, where it would land.

well I even think mezzed was right. I'm not sure about it though.
you could, for sure, use critshot on a stunned target. but even then you could prevent it by strafing while stunned.
you could prevent it by sprinting.
you could not critshot a target in combat.

other not so minor things custom here:
block rate was higher.
no procs on bows.
passive see hidden at clipping range, but camo at 10min timer.

noone wants old SI critshot back. or even all the old SI mechanics...

Fri 7 Jun 2019 8:22 PM by Snakejuice

Or you could give us NF Archer tree...