Necro nuking me out of stealth at max casting range?

So I pop a caster in front of 6 Albs, kill him, Vanish at full health, move away at speed away from the Albs.

In the meantime I'm getting nuked by a low level Necro, his first nuke was resisted, his second nuke hit me for 27 damage but I was in vanish invulnerability so wasn't uncovered, his 3rd nuke hit me for 27 damage and uncovered me from stealth.

All of this at near max casting range, while I'm in stealth.

Would love to hear any reasoning for this, it's confused me to say the least... I thought pets were supposed to drop target upon stealthing?

https://i.imgur.com/Vx3qrzT.png

Mon 4 Feb 2019 6:56 PM by Dimir

I had a necro buff me yesterday while I was moving away in stealth. I assume they saw me, targeted me, started casting buff and it still finished even though they should have dropped target at that range. Not quite the same thing but I think the two are connected and points to a bug.

Mon 4 Feb 2019 7:16 PM by Afuldan

Probably the same issue allowing ani pets to cast through walls. One los check at start of cast. No second check at end.

Mon 4 Feb 2019 7:52 PM by Zansobar

Afuldan wrote: ↑
Mon 4 Feb 2019 7:16 PM
Probably the same issue allowing ani pets to cast through walls. One los check at start of cast. No second check at end.

Well if they are going to put in a second (or however many they already have) LOS check for pet casting then they need to increase the casting speed tremendously, otherwise it is way too easy to run into range, then run out and the pets waste an entire casting period doing nothing.

In this instance it sounds like stealth didn't clear the target which is quite different than an LOS check for casting pets.

Mon 4 Feb 2019 9:07 PM by phixion

A second example, this time I didn't get destealthed but was still hit twice during vanish.

https://i.imgur.com/FKEzSBs.png

Mon 4 Feb 2019 9:12 PM by florin

I’m pretty sure vanish is broken and suspect stealth is as well with the number of custom tweaks, it’s easy to misplace a comma. First and second nuke are pretty much same los check. Third nuke shouldn’t have it. Vanish would make sense to drop aggro on mobs and target/los/ spell queue.

Mon 4 Feb 2019 9:16 PM by Koljar

Rough guess: Abom started casting before you pressed vanish. Cast finished and hit due to no los-check upon completion (which was checked when the spell was started…).

Mon 4 Feb 2019 10:14 PM by Ardri

Koljar wrote: ↑
Mon 4 Feb 2019 9:16 PM
Rough guess: Abom started casting before you pressed vanish. Cast finished and hit due to no los-check upon completion (which was checked when the spell was started…).

For the 1st cast sure, but this doesn't make sense for the 2nd and 3rd spell. The pet starts the 2nd and 3rd spell well after he is in stealthed. Something is broken with necro pets and stealth.

Mon 4 Feb 2019 10:35 PM by Quik

Necro pets are messed up...

I know I have fought 5-6 necro's in Thid so this is only speaking from a lvl 24 view, but everytime I have fought them I have NEVER been able to disrupt their spell casting. I can be attacking the pet directly and it can continue to cast and nuke me non stop.

I know the necro has a lifetap he can cast every few seconds, but I am referring to the pet. I don't touch necro's anymore as they are worse then BD's.

Mon 4 Feb 2019 11:01 PM by florin

Quik wrote: ↑
Mon 4 Feb 2019 10:35 PM
Necro pets are messed up...

I know I have fought 5-6 necro's in Thid so this is only speaking from a lvl 24 view, but everytime I have fought them I have NEVER been able to disrupt their spell casting. I can be attacking the pet directly and it can continue to cast and nuke me non stop.

I know the necro has a lifetap he can cast every few seconds, but I am referring to the pet. I don't touch necro's anymore as they are worse then BD's.

This is a basic necro mechanic called facilitate painworking.

Tue 5 Feb 2019 12:13 AM by Quik

florin wrote: ↑
Mon 4 Feb 2019 11:01 PM
Quik wrote: ↑
Mon 4 Feb 2019 10:35 PM
Necro pets are messed up...

I know I have fought 5-6 necro's in Thid so this is only speaking from a lvl 24 view, but everytime I have fought them I have NEVER been able to disrupt their spell casting. I can be attacking the pet directly and it can continue to cast and nuke me non stop.

I know the necro has a lifetap he can cast every few seconds, but I am referring to the pet. I don't touch necro's anymore as they are worse then BD's.

This is a basic necro mechanic called facilitate painworking.

No...Facilitate Painworking lets your pet keep casting its own spells for 2-4 more casts, what I am talking about goes beyond that.

I have been in a group of 3 in Thid where I was a Hero attacking the necroservant and the servant was able to not only cast and kill the Druid and the Bard, AND out dmg the heals, he was able to nuke them down and then proceed to nuke me down without stopping its casting.

That is not Facilitate Painworking unless they changed the 30 second cooldown I believe it has.

For this reason I avoid necro's in Thid and Cale now.

Wed 27 Feb 2019 5:50 PM by Kyosji

Quik wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Feb 2019 12:13 AM
florin wrote: ↑
Mon 4 Feb 2019 11:01 PM
Quik wrote: ↑
Mon 4 Feb 2019 10:35 PM
Necro pets are messed up...

I know I have fought 5-6 necro's in Thid so this is only speaking from a lvl 24 view, but everytime I have fought them I have NEVER been able to disrupt their spell casting. I can be attacking the pet directly and it can continue to cast and nuke me non stop.

I know the necro has a lifetap he can cast every few seconds, but I am referring to the pet. I don't touch necro's anymore as they are worse then BD's.

This is a basic necro mechanic called facilitate painworking.

No...Facilitate Painworking lets your pet keep casting its own spells for 2-4 more casts, what I am talking about goes beyond that.

I have been in a group of 3 in Thid where I was a Hero attacking the necroservant and the servant was able to not only cast and kill the Druid and the Bard, AND out dmg the heals, he was able to nuke them down and then proceed to nuke me down without stopping its casting.

That is not Facilitate Painworking unless they changed the 30 second cooldown I believe it has.

For this reason I avoid necro's in Thid and Cale now.

If no one is attacking the pet or dotting it, it will be able to keep casting without FP. As for you being hit while in stealth, it's probably because of low stealth in general.

Also to point out, there are pet casts, then there are shad casts. As long as you are near the pet, the shade can cast attacks like Cackle (Think that's the direct damage one)

Wed 27 Feb 2019 6:20 PM by Wellzy

There is a bug report on this.

Search the Bug database and see if you can add the screenshots to it.

Wed 27 Feb 2019 6:27 PM by Zansobar

phixion wrote: ↑
Mon 4 Feb 2019 9:07 PM
A second example, this time I didn't get destealthed but was still hit twice during vanish.

https://i.imgur.com/FKEzSBs.png

Are you sure you aren't getting hit by the PBAE spells the necro gets? Also I see an Evy person hit you also while vanished and not just the necro pet...could that be a GTAOE spell from Evy given it's very low damage.

Wed 27 Feb 2019 6:30 PM by Zansobar

Quik wrote: ↑
Tue 5 Feb 2019 12:13 AM
florin wrote: ↑
Mon 4 Feb 2019 11:01 PM
Quik wrote: ↑
Mon 4 Feb 2019 10:35 PM
Necro pets are messed up...

I know I have fought 5-6 necro's in Thid so this is only speaking from a lvl 24 view, but everytime I have fought them I have NEVER been able to disrupt their spell casting. I can be attacking the pet directly and it can continue to cast and nuke me non stop.

I know the necro has a lifetap he can cast every few seconds, but I am referring to the pet. I don't touch necro's anymore as they are worse then BD's.

This is a basic necro mechanic called facilitate painworking.

No...Facilitate Painworking lets your pet keep casting its own spells for 2-4 more casts, what I am talking about goes beyond that.

I have been in a group of 3 in Thid where I was a Hero attacking the necroservant and the servant was able to not only cast and kill the Druid and the Bard, AND out dmg the heals, he was able to nuke them down and then proceed to nuke me down without stopping its casting.

That is not Facilitate Painworking unless they changed the 30 second cooldown I believe it has.

For this reason I avoid necro's in Thid and Cale now.

Necros get instant cast spells that cast through the pet, the only spells attacking the pet will interrupt are those cast by the pet itself. Add on top of that the necro quickcast is a 6 second window that allows no interruptions in casting, and the concentration RA resets this ability for a total of 12 seconds of uninterrupted casting.

Wed 27 Feb 2019 6:33 PM by phixion

Zansobar wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Feb 2019 6:27 PM
phixion wrote: ↑
Mon 4 Feb 2019 9:07 PM
A second example, this time I didn't get destealthed but was still hit twice during vanish.

https://i.imgur.com/FKEzSBs.png

Are you sure you aren't getting hit by the PBAE spells the necro gets? Also I see an Evy person hit you also while vanished and not just the necro pet...could that be a GTAOE spell from Evy given it's very low damage.

No.

I am at range, away from the Necro while it nukes. I see it nuking me, hitting me out of stealth. Reported by multiple users at this point.

Wed 27 Feb 2019 6:38 PM by Zansobar

phixion wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Feb 2019 6:33 PM
Zansobar wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Feb 2019 6:27 PM
phixion wrote: ↑
Mon 4 Feb 2019 9:07 PM
A second example, this time I didn't get destealthed but was still hit twice during vanish.

https://i.imgur.com/FKEzSBs.png

Are you sure you aren't getting hit by the PBAE spells the necro gets? Also I see an Evy person hit you also while vanished and not just the necro pet...could that be a GTAOE spell from Evy given it's very low damage.

No.

I am at range, away from the Necro while it nukes. I see it nuking me, hitting me out of stealth. Reported by multiple users at this point.

I'm not sure how that is possible since the necro will need a target to get the pet to cast...plus there are so many bugs with the pet where the necro will get a message "the target is not visible to your pet" even if you are standing on top of them, I can't see how there would actually be a bug in favor of the necro class.

Wed 27 Feb 2019 6:40 PM by phixion

Zansobar wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Feb 2019 6:38 PM
phixion wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Feb 2019 6:33 PM
Zansobar wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Feb 2019 6:27 PM
Are you sure you aren't getting hit by the PBAE spells the necro gets? Also I see an Evy person hit you also while vanished and not just the necro pet...could that be a GTAOE spell from Evy given it's very low damage.

No.

I am at range, away from the Necro while it nukes. I see it nuking me, hitting me out of stealth. Reported by multiple users at this point.

Who was that Evy person that was hitting you in the screenshot?

An infiltrator, it's poison ticking. Which, funnily enough should be removed when I vanish.

https://herald.playphoenix.online/c/Evy

Wed 27 Feb 2019 6:41 PM by Zansobar

phixion wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Feb 2019 6:40 PM
Zansobar wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Feb 2019 6:38 PM
phixion wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Feb 2019 6:33 PM
No.

I am at range, away from the Necro while it nukes. I see it nuking me, hitting me out of stealth. Reported by multiple users at this point.

Who was that Evy person that was hitting you in the screenshot?

An infiltrator, it's poison ticking. Which, funnily enough should be removed when I vanish.

https://herald.playphoenix.online/c/Evy

I though vanish cured those dots on use? does it only clear them when the vanish timer expires?

Wed 27 Feb 2019 6:48 PM by Zansobar

If this is indeed happening it is probably the queued up spells still going off via the pet, since you can't cast a spell to be cast by the pet without a target, but I could see the pet finishing its casts that it had already received. It's not like the animist pet issues as those are being initiated by the pet itself, not a player (the necro pet does not cast spells on its own like the animist fnf shrooms do).

Wed 27 Feb 2019 7:42 PM by Kyosji

Possibility there was another target the necro was aoe targeting at the time and you just happened to be within its range?

Wed 27 Feb 2019 7:56 PM by Zansobar

Kyosji wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Feb 2019 7:42 PM
Possibility there was another target the necro was aoe targeting at the time and you just happened to be within its range?

Aren't the only ae spells the necro gets PBAE, which wouldn't require a target but also only be around 300 to 500 range?

Wed 27 Feb 2019 8:00 PM by jelzinga_EU

It seems any casting pet (theurg pets are notorious for that too) just flat out ignore Vanish. More than once I've been uncovered by a theurgist his ice-pets after vanish.

Wed 27 Feb 2019 8:08 PM by Kyosji

Zansobar wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Feb 2019 7:56 PM
Kyosji wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Feb 2019 7:42 PM
Possibility there was another target the necro was aoe targeting at the time and you just happened to be within its range?

Aren't the only ae spells the necro gets PBAE, which wouldn't require a target but also only be around 300 to 500 range?

They have one that you target a creature and it AOEs things around it and adds slow. Charplan says it deals spirit damage, but I don't see an amount. 1500 range with 350 radius.

Wed 27 Feb 2019 8:09 PM by Kyosji

jelzinga_EU wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Feb 2019 8:00 PM
It seems any casting pet (theurg pets are notorious for that too) just flat out ignore Vanish. More than once I've been uncovered by a theurgist his ice-pets after vanish.

Unless it's been cast prior to the vanish, the pet can't really ignore it since it uses your targetting, not its own, and pets can only do melee by itself.

Wed 27 Feb 2019 8:09 PM by Zansobar

jelzinga_EU wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Feb 2019 8:00 PM
It seems any casting pet (theurg pets are notorious for that too) just flat out ignore Vanish. More than once I've been uncovered by a theurgist his ice-pets after vanish.

Necro pets aren't casting pets, they do not cast a spell on their own initiative, it has to be cast by the necro itself first and to do so the necro has to have a target. The enchanter pet is a casting pet, the necro pet isn't. However, the necro pet has a one spell casting queue that may be emptying before the pet loses the target.

Wed 27 Feb 2019 8:34 PM by jelzinga_EU

Zansobar wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Feb 2019 8:09 PM
jelzinga_EU wrote: ↑
Wed 27 Feb 2019 8:00 PM
It seems any casting pet (theurg pets are notorious for that too) just flat out ignore Vanish. More than once I've been uncovered by a theurgist his ice-pets after vanish.

Necro pets aren't casting pets, they do not cast a spell on their own initiative, it has to be cast by the necro itself first and to do so the necro has to have a target. The enchanter pet is a casting pet, the necro pet isn't. However, the necro pet has a one spell casting queue that may be emptying before the pet loses the target.

The definition of a casting pet isn't that it is casting on their own initiative. But regardless, let's not get hung up on semantics. Perhaps the fact that with Facilitate Painworking you can cast up to 3 spell uninterrupted the spell-queue might be 3 spells "long" in such cases, only needing initial LOS when filling up the queue somehow.

In any case, the mechanics of Vanish are completely broken when theurg-pets and necromancers are casting on you. Just because they suffer from other problems is no excuse, then those problems should be fixed rather than allowing other bugged mechanics to stay in which frustrate other people.

Thu 28 Feb 2019 12:40 PM by Kyosji

FP doesn't load 3 spells, you still have the 1 spell queued. Also, you sure it doesn't also work for normal casters? I suggest a duel with a caster and test if they can get off queued spells when you vanish.

Thu 28 Feb 2019 12:48 PM by Sepplord

Kyosji wrote: ↑
Thu 28 Feb 2019 12:40 PM
FP doesn't load 3 spells, you still have the 1 spell queued. Also, you sure it doesn't also work for normal casters? I suggest a duel with a caster and test if they can get off queued spells when you vanish.

when a caster is casting a spell and the stealther stealthes (or vanishes) the cast doesn't go through.
A queued spell isn't started.

Thu 28 Feb 2019 1:01 PM by relvinian

I wish i knew the secret. Here is the rest of the story.

I attack lots of sneaks and even dump ras on them, and they spend 5 points and get away clean.

But he must have qued up several attacks on you and it finished them.

thanks for the tip next time i see a stealther i will quick cast 3 nukes on them.

By the way, most of the time im hitting the sneak in combat and instant debuffing, instant dotting. Then immune, gone.

Thu 28 Feb 2019 1:04 PM by Kyosji

Necros don't have quick cast nukes :/

Thu 28 Feb 2019 1:42 PM by Sepplord

Kyosji wrote: ↑
Thu 28 Feb 2019 1:04 PM
Necros don't have quick cast nukes :/

they have something better, faciliate painworking which is basically a stack of 3quick-cast nukes that have to be used together (6s timer).

You even made a thread about that exact ability...

:

Thu 28 Feb 2019 1:44 PM by Ceen

Devs trying to fix it, at the moment everyone can do it theurgs, bonedancer.
Yet everyone else except assasins hate vanish ^^

Thu 28 Feb 2019 1:50 PM by florin

Necros also can use the concentration ra to reset their FP - so 6 casts baby

Thu 28 Feb 2019 1:51 PM by Kyosji

What do you classify as quick casts?

Thu 28 Feb 2019 1:51 PM by kvothe

All we need is mana costs spend at the cast not before.

So bump @gruenesschaf on this one.

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Fri 8 Feb 2019 6:18 PM
The mana consumption happens when it should but that's something that could be changed to something more friendly.

Thu 28 Feb 2019 1:52 PM by Rubin

Think it's also an issue with animists.
I got destealthed by animist pets quite a lot lately.

Thu 28 Feb 2019 1:53 PM by Anaethema

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Thu 28 Feb 2019 12:48 PM
Kyosji wrote: ↑
Thu 28 Feb 2019 12:40 PM
FP doesn't load 3 spells, you still have the 1 spell queued. Also, you sure it doesn't also work for normal casters? I suggest a duel with a caster and test if they can get off queued spells when you vanish.

when a caster is casting a spell and the stealther stealthes (or vanishes) the cast doesn't go through.
A queued spell isn't started.

In some circumstances it does and I can confirm this with a screenshot. I was fighting a mincer with an Icestrider pet and it rooted me roughly .5 seconds after I vanished. I should have made my text window larger, but you can clearly see that I was rooted before vanish wore off. I've had something similar happen another time but I didn't screenshot it since I thought it was server lag or something since it was the first time it had ever happened.

Thu 28 Feb 2019 1:54 PM by Ceen

Anaethema wrote: ↑
Thu 28 Feb 2019 1:53 PM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Thu 28 Feb 2019 12:48 PM
Kyosji wrote: ↑
Thu 28 Feb 2019 12:40 PM
FP doesn't load 3 spells, you still have the 1 spell queued. Also, you sure it doesn't also work for normal casters? I suggest a duel with a caster and test if they can get off queued spells when you vanish.

when a caster is casting a spell and the stealther stealthes (or vanishes) the cast doesn't go through.
A queued spell isn't started.
In some circumstances it does and I can confirm this with a screenshot. I was fighting a mincer with an Icestrider pet and it rooted me roughly .5 seconds after I vanished. I should have made my text window larger, but you can clearly see that I was rooted before vanish wore off. I've had something similar happen another time but I didn't screenshot it since I thought it was server lag or something since it was the first time it had ever happened.

All pets have this behaviour I think staff is already working on that one, since it's an approved bug.

Thu 28 Feb 2019 2:04 PM by Zansobar

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Thu 28 Feb 2019 1:42 PM
Kyosji wrote: ↑
Thu 28 Feb 2019 1:04 PM
Necros don't have quick cast nukes :/
they have something better, faciliate painworking which is basically a stack of 3quick-cast nukes that have to be used together (6s timer).

You even made a thread about that exact ability... :

It isn't a stack of nukes...it creates a 6 second window where you won't be interrupted...think a mini MOC. 6 seconds is only enough time to get off 2 casts unless your pet is seriously buffed by a cleric (which never happens since Necros aren't allowed in groups) and then it can get off 3 casts in that window.

Thu 28 Feb 2019 2:13 PM by Kyosji

Zansobar wrote: ↑
Thu 28 Feb 2019 2:04 PM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Thu 28 Feb 2019 1:42 PM
Kyosji wrote: ↑
Thu 28 Feb 2019 1:04 PM
Necros don't have quick cast nukes :/
they have something better, faciliate painworking which is basically a stack of 3quick-cast nukes that have to be used together (6s timer).

You even made a thread about that exact ability... :

It isn't a stack of nukes...it creates a 6 second window where you won't be interrupted...think a mini MOC. 6 seconds is only enough time to get off 2 casts unless your pet is seriously buffed by a cleric (which never happens since Necros aren't allowed in groups) and then it can get off 3 casts in that window.

Depends on the cast I guess. I use if for the PBAoE skill and i've always gotten 3 off easily. I always solo and use only self buffs.

Thu 28 Feb 2019 3:10 PM by kvothe

I usually assist nuke from the back. Ask your caba for spirit debuff and you are a beast.