Melee Variance

Started 23 Apr 2021
by Akhilio
in Ask the Team
I guess melee variance was put in while I was away, and I have to say I'm uncertain as to why this seemed to be a necessary change.

My first point from is that as a melee class (specifically an assassin) we usually have to spend our points in Critical strike, base melee weapon type, and dual wield in order to be effective in combat. As such, the point investment for this damage is far greater than that of the casting classes. While it is true we have more spec points to spend because of this, I am uncertain as to why our damage variance (upwards of 30%) was introduced in the first place, when a caster simply needs to spec in their primary damage dealing ability to have a fairly tight damage variation. My earth Wiz has 49 earth, and almost zero variance on his dds against a single target.

My second point is that looking at it from a numbers and a simply logical standpoint, I have seen many times where an evade based ability (which should have a higher damage multiplier than ANY anytime style) frequently hits for below that of the standard assassin garrote/ah combo. I have had leaper AND ripper (both of which have some if not the highest damage multipliers in the game) hit for less than a garrote, which should have a much lower damage potential.

I'm not trying to open up the nerf this class or that wound, but could the staff at least look at the variance and possibly tweak it so that even if you hit the low end of the spectrum, the damage from positional/evade/block etc styles ends up at least being better than our anytime styles? Did I miss some overarching reason why this was put in, in the first place?

-Akhi
Fri 23 Apr 2021 8:26 AM by Ceen
Variance change did not change melee damage.
It's still the same on average.
Sometimes you hit for less as you mentioned and sometimes you hit for more, which for sure you ignore.
Fri 23 Apr 2021 8:55 AM by Akhilio
Ceen wrote:
Fri 23 Apr 2021 8:26 AM
Variance change did not change melee damage.
It's still the same on average.
Sometimes you hit for less as you mentioned and sometimes you hit for more, which for sure you ignore.

I'm not as worried about it for anytime styles. If for some reason they want melee variance, I guess it is what it is. Part of my point however, is that how is it an evade based style can still hit for less than an anytime style. Assassin vs assassin fights by their very nature are typically pretty quick, on average somewhere around 20-30 seconds, maybe less depending on positional and available RA. Averaging an anytime style is fine in this situation. Having an evade based ability that is supposed do more damage, and be conditional on something (and still has the same miss/evade pitfalls that we all face) should not do less damage than an anytime style, or am I missing something? Maybe if I could get in two full evade chains (4 styles each) per fight it would make sense, but due to enemy evade/miss chances that's a rarity vs high parry/block/assassin fights.

Also, why implement this in the first place?
Fri 23 Apr 2021 9:05 AM by Ceen
Akhilio wrote:
Fri 23 Apr 2021 8:55 AM
Ceen wrote:
Fri 23 Apr 2021 8:26 AM
Variance change did not change melee damage.
It's still the same on average.
Sometimes you hit for less as you mentioned and sometimes you hit for more, which for sure you ignore.

I'm not as worried about it for anytime styles. If for some reason they want melee variance, I guess it is what it is. Part of my point however, is that how is it an evade based style can still hit for less than an anytime style. Assassin vs assassin fights by their very nature are typically pretty quick, on average somewhere around 20-30 seconds, maybe less depending on positional and available RA. Averaging an anytime style is fine in this situation. Having an evade based ability that is supposed do more damage, and be conditional on something (and still has the same miss/evade pitfalls that we all face) should not do less damage than an anytime style, or am I missing something? Maybe if I could get in two full evade chains (4 styles each) per fight it would make sense, but due to enemy evade/miss chances that's a rarity vs high parry/block/assassin fights.

Also, why implement this in the first place?
Because the majority voted for this change?
Fri 23 Apr 2021 1:24 PM by ExcretusMaximus
Ceen wrote:
Fri 23 Apr 2021 9:05 AM
Because the majority voted for this change?

By 1%, because people are stupid and/or casters knew they'd have a better time against variance than they would the steady no-variance damage they themselves put out.
Fri 23 Apr 2021 2:35 PM by Magesty
ExcretusMaximus wrote:
Fri 23 Apr 2021 1:24 PM
By 1%, because people are stupid and/or casters knew they'd have a better time against variance than they would the steady no-variance damage they themselves put out.

I'd vote for variance 10/10 times

But I don't play a caster

Shit...
Fri 23 Apr 2021 4:07 PM by byron
If I remember well the variance voted was about critic damage and not about base damage. Then the damage done by an assassin is the last of the problems since with weapon switch, double poisons, viper, debuffs, disease, etc... you can kill one target also doing 10 damage on every style
Fri 23 Apr 2021 4:17 PM by skipari
byron wrote:
Fri 23 Apr 2021 4:07 PM
If I remember well the variance voted was about critic damage and not about base damage.

both
base and crit were separate and had even a short explanation.

see also https://forum.playphoenix.online/survey-results
Fri 23 Apr 2021 9:15 PM by keen
would be cool if they could remove variance on dolls. since the change its a pain to test your mdps.
Fri 23 Apr 2021 9:18 PM by boridi
byron wrote:
Fri 23 Apr 2021 4:07 PM
If I remember well the variance voted was about critic damage and not about base damage. Then the damage done by an assassin is the last of the problems since with weapon switch, double poisons, viper, debuffs, disease, etc... you can kill one target also doing 10 damage on every style
My RR10 shadowblade's fights with Krankii never seem to go that way...
Thu 13 May 2021 8:58 AM by paqdizzle
Ceen wrote:
Fri 23 Apr 2021 8:26 AM
Variance change did not change melee damage.
It's still the same on average.
Sometimes you hit for less as you mentioned and sometimes you hit for more, which for sure you ignore.

This is illogical.
RNG will dictate if you hit for an average. Like you said, Sometimes you'll hit for more, and sometimes you'll hit for less. The fact is, there are going to be times where you could absolutely hit for the max you possibly can and often, there is the other side of the coin of RNG and you hit nothing but those low values and lose to targets that you should have otherwise smashed. it's RNG from 0-50% of you damage values. which means you'll have to take the average of that % and values you saw on your styles to find an average, which more or less with RNG means- there really is a wider average range. for an example, you always did 100 damageMH, That's your average... add a 0-50% variance to that.. What do you think happened to that 100 value being average? XD is it still the same? lol.
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