Dual Wield and Hibernia Celtic Dual Animations

Alright to start off I had a question that I can't seem to find the answer to on the interwebs.. I notice my offhand doesn't get a to-hit bonus from my styles when using CD styles, I was under the impression it should but not gain the style bonus damage.

Second part of my post is concerning the blandness of Celtic Dual styles. 90% share the same animation as Squall, this is boring and I was wondering if y'all can spice it up like merc dualwield styles which are a bit more flashy and give visual gratification for being interactive!!

Thanks!

Tue 19 Feb 2019 1:52 AM by Wellzy

Well then don't play Midgard. All of their 1h styles look exactly the same. There are only 1-2 variations for the 2h version of the styles.

Tue 19 Feb 2019 3:26 AM by Bradekes

Wellzy wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Feb 2019 1:52 AM
Well then don't play Midgard. All of their 1h styles look exactly the same. There are only 1-2 variations for the 2h version of the styles.

Well, they could totally do some tweaking to make all weapon styles have varied animations. It's not hard, there is a decent sized library and I don't think cross realming animations would be a bad thing. Just spread them out... I made my own class on my own emulator and made all sorts of styles and use different animations... it is really really easy.. I hope they get bored and start messing around with it one day.. Sounds like fun...

They can even use like the battle master style animations and such... really no reason not to would definitely make melee more fun

Tue 19 Feb 2019 6:26 AM by Sepplord

Bradekes wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Feb 2019 3:26 AM
really no reason not to would definitely make melee more fun

character and class recognition would be a reason not to

in this game you see enemy names really late, seeing animations helps when there are battles going on to spot enemy trains or even specific classes, switching around all those animations and even making them crossrealm ruins that

Tue 19 Feb 2019 12:41 PM by Bradekes

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Feb 2019 6:26 AM
character and class recognition would be a reason not to

in this game you see enemy names really late, seeing animations helps when there are battles going on to spot enemy trains or even specific classes, switching around all those animations and even making them crossrealm ruins that

That's why I was saying the styles other than the typical. How often are you recognizing classes based on their parry style, or follow ups... I wasn't saying to change normal anytime moves but atleast make a weapon line not have 90% the same animation

Tue 19 Feb 2019 1:18 PM by chryso

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Feb 2019 6:26 AM
in this game you see enemy names really late, seeing animations helps when there are battles going on to spot enemy trains or even specific classes, switching around all those animations and even making them crossrealm ruins that

That sounds like an even better reason to do it.

Tue 19 Feb 2019 1:28 PM by Sepplord

chryso wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Feb 2019 1:18 PM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Feb 2019 6:26 AM
in this game you see enemy names really late, seeing animations helps when there are battles going on to spot enemy trains or even specific classes, switching around all those animations and even making them crossrealm ruins that

That sounds like an even better reason to do it.

how so? If a mercenary suddenly uses BM animations or a Hunter uses polearms animations that creates confusion.

Or are you advocating to create that confusion to level the playing field between people that do not notice such things and the top-skill players?

Tue 19 Feb 2019 2:16 PM by Bradekes

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Feb 2019 1:28 PM
Hunter uses polearms animations that creates confusion.

Or are you advocating to create that confusion to level the playing field between people that do not notice such things and the top-skill players?

If you can't tell the difference from a half ogre and valkyn kobold there might be a problem :p I think races are generally going to give away a realm before styles. I can tell the difference from styles aswell, but to me variety of the visuals is more important than identifing that a specific class is attacking someone from afar based on a melee animation.

I think the majority would appreciate the visual eyecandy from the different styles vs this very niche problem you have with the idea. Especially new players. The only variety I have with Celtic Dual is watching my weapons proc... Literally the only reason I ever played a Valewalker was because of the awesome visual of the styles. They have almost no two styles that look the same.

Tue 19 Feb 2019 2:34 PM by Sepplord

Bradekes wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Feb 2019 2:16 PM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Feb 2019 1:28 PM
Hunter uses polearms animations that creates confusion.

Or are you advocating to create that confusion to level the playing field between people that do not notice such things and the top-skill players?

If you can't tell the difference from a half ogre and valkyn kobold there might be a problem :p I think races are generally going to give away a realm before styles. I can tell the difference from styles aswell, but to me variety of the visuals is more important than identifing that a specific class is attacking someone from afar based on a melee animation.

I think the majority would appreciate the visual eyecandy from the different styles vs this very niche problem you have with the idea. Especially new players. The only variety I have with Celtic Dual is watching my weapons proc... Literally the only reason I ever played a Valewalker was because of the awesome visual of the styles. They have almost no two styles that look the same.

chosing the easiest possible to distinguish races to discredit my argument is not a fair way of having the discussion.
I don't mind personally btw., i do not have the intuition to recognize a norseman from a celt because of their attack animations, but i know that some people have it. And imo that is a reason. If it is a big reason or a small reason is a different discussion and one of those people actually impacted can give a better gauge of how impactful such a change would be.

I also never claimed that it would worsen the game overall, or that it isn't a good idea in it core. I saw you mentioning that there is "no reason not to" and wanted to give a different POV for reflection. Scenarios where there is "not reason not to" are really few and in between, and when thinking about changing something i believe it is important to think about the contras. If there are no contras, then the change probably has not been discussed/thought through properly.

Tue 19 Feb 2019 2:48 PM by Bradekes

Fair enough... It was just your example I thought it was funny.. But like I said earlier I just want variety for the harder to pull off styles... Anytime styles should retain the base animation that people can identify, which would allow your niche issue to be a non issue for the most part.

Tue 19 Feb 2019 2:52 PM by Sepplord

Bradekes wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Feb 2019 2:48 PM
Fair enough... It was just your example I thought it was funny.. But like I said earlier I just want variety for the harder to pull off styles... Anytime styles should retain the base animation that people can identify, which would allow your niche issue to be a non issue for the most part.

ok, fair enough, i see it know....i didn't think about usual/available races for the classes, i only looked at weapontypes that might share animations after an overhaul.

I agree on your ending point too

Tue 19 Feb 2019 3:00 PM by chryso

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Feb 2019 1:28 PM
chryso wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Feb 2019 1:18 PM
Sepplord wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Feb 2019 6:26 AM
in this game you see enemy names really late, seeing animations helps when there are battles going on to spot enemy trains or even specific classes, switching around all those animations and even making them crossrealm ruins that

That sounds like an even better reason to do it.

how so? If a mercenary suddenly uses BM animations or a Hunter uses polearms animations that creates confusion.

Or are you advocating to create that confusion to level the playing field between people that do not notice such things and the top-skill players?

The different realms should be foreign to each other. I like the idea of not understanding some of what you see.

Tue 19 Feb 2019 3:15 PM by Dimir

Bradekes wrote: ↑
Mon 18 Feb 2019 2:49 PM
I notice my offhand doesn't get a to-hit bonus from my styles when using CD styles, I was under the impression it should but not gain the style bonus damage.

Your offhand is an unstyled attack, so no to-hit bonus, just like no style damage. TBH, I am just assuming this is correct, because the offhand does unstyled damage. I couldn't find a good answer either after a few minutes of searching. Maybe a dev will pop in but I'll try to remember to research this some more.

Tue 19 Feb 2019 4:05 PM by Bradekes

Dimir wrote: ↑
Tue 19 Feb 2019 3:15 PM
Your offhand is an unstyled attack, so no to-hit bonus, just like no style damage. TBH, I am just assuming this is correct, because the offhand does unstyled damage. I couldn't find a good answer either after a few minutes of searching. Maybe a dev will pop in but I'll try to remember to research this some more.

Now I understand that offhand swings are technically unstyled, but I would think they would gain style to-hit beings the style line is specifically catered to wielding two weapons. I can only find very detailed calculations comparing DW+CD vs LA dps some factor in missrates but give no specifics to whether or not the left hand is supposed to gain to-hit from styles.

IMO it only makes sense that they should based on the fact you're using styles from the CD tree and not base blades, pierce, crush, which I don't think should gain the to-hit. I'd also like some clarification on a GM/Devs thoughts on this.