Current penalties for breaking rules.

I just wanted to bring something to the attention of the admins.

There seems to be a very lopsided punishment for some of the rulebreaking. In particular I wanted to highlight these two:

3. RP-Farming is strictly forbidden

1st offense: 3-day ban for all involved accounts. RPs, BPs and XP will be deducted at our own discretion
2nd offense: 4 weeks ban for all involved accounts. RPs, BPs and XP will be deducted at our own discretion
3rd offense: Permaban for all involved Players

And this one:

5. Hotkeys to auto queue attacks or spells, or any other action which we determine as an unfair advantage to your character.
(It is allowed to bind multiple actions to a key, however, delays, repeats, and conditions are strictly forbidden, as well as any other action that allows unattended game-play)

1st offense: Deletion of all characters and 2-weeks ban
2nd offense: permaban of Player

I think RP farming is much worse than someone using macros or whatever to queue up attack styles. You're perm deleting peoples toons for this, when people who RP farm get off on a 3 day ban for first suspension. It also says that RP removal is at your discretion. This translates to that it may be that the person doesn't get RP's removed and just has to take a 3 day vacation and keeps all their ill gotten gains. Meanwhile, someone who macros some attack styles gets their entire account wiped and a 2 week suspension before being forced to start fresh. That's completely unbalanced.

I request that RP farming result in character deletion also, if you're going to keep that punishment for Hotkeys/macroing. RP farming is by far the worse crime.

Fri 28 Sep 2018 4:45 AM by rubaduck

RP Farming can easily be dealt with. If an 8 man or a zerg gets a whiff of it they will clean it up. It used to happen on live back in the days all the way up into Labyrinth when I quit. Probably still happens today. I report this kind of behaviour immediately, and that is the best way to remedy it. The players have a chance to redeem themselves because they haven't impacted the game in a very large way, however.

Macro is so much worse, because it makes a player cast a secquenced number of spells in a specific order, with perfect timing. To put it in a perspective, you know those speed gamers, the ones who are competing to complete a game as fast as possible? They use tool assisted speedruns (TAS) to find glitches they can exploit, but publishing any TAS as an official completion will result in instant ban from the community because it is so extremely toxic. It is the same in Daoc, perfect casting and perfect movement. It is full on cheating and it is so much worse then RP farming.

Fri 28 Sep 2018 4:54 AM by Haruspex

rubaduck wrote: ↑
Fri 28 Sep 2018 4:45 AM
RP Farming can easily be dealt with. If an 8 man or a zerg gets a whiff of it they will clean it up. It used to happen on live back in the days all the way up into Labyrinth when I quit. Probably still happens today. I report this kind of behaviour immediately, and that is the best way to remedy it. The players have a chance to redeem themselves because they haven't impacted the game in a very large way, however.

Macro is so much worse, because it makes a player cast a secquenced number of spells in a specific order, with perfect timing. To put it in a perspective, you know those speed gamers, the ones who are competing to complete a game as fast as possible? They use tool assisted speedruns (TAS) to find glitches they can exploit, but publishing any TAS as an official completion will result in instant ban from the community because it is so extremely toxic. It is the same in Daoc, perfect casting and perfect movement. It is full on cheating and it is so much worse then RP farming.

I disagree completely about Macros being worse. I have intimate knowledge of pretty much every popular tool that's been used for DAOC since early 2002 and I'm well aware of their capabilities. However, please notice that I'm not asking the punishment for Macros to be lessened. I simply want RP farmers to suffer the punishment they deserve. A suspension is not enough.

It is laughable that you think 8man teams is enough to 'police' this activity. Throughout the years there have been many many cases on live of people publicly shaming RP farmers who have received no punishment and have enjoyed the fruits of their labors. They should be crushed utterly so that the behavior is stamped out.

if you knew your character could be deleted for doing something, you're far less likely to risk it than a 3d/4w ban especially if it got you an easy boost to RR5 or something, which is easily done if you know how.

Fri 28 Sep 2018 5:15 AM by rubaduck

Haruspex wrote: ↑
Fri 28 Sep 2018 4:54 AM
rubaduck wrote: ↑
Fri 28 Sep 2018 4:45 AM
RP Farming can easily be dealt with. If an 8 man or a zerg gets a whiff of it they will clean it up. It used to happen on live back in the days all the way up into Labyrinth when I quit. Probably still happens today. I report this kind of behaviour immediately, and that is the best way to remedy it. The players have a chance to redeem themselves because they haven't impacted the game in a very large way, however.

Macro is so much worse, because it makes a player cast a secquenced number of spells in a specific order, with perfect timing. To put it in a perspective, you know those speed gamers, the ones who are competing to complete a game as fast as possible? They use tool assisted speedruns (TAS) to find glitches they can exploit, but publishing any TAS as an official completion will result in instant ban from the community because it is so extremely toxic. It is the same in Daoc, perfect casting and perfect movement. It is full on cheating and it is so much worse then RP farming.

I disagree completely about Macros being worse. I have intimate knowledge of pretty much every popular tool that's been used for DAOC since early 2002 and I'm well aware of their capabilities. However, please notice that I'm not asking the punishment for Macros to be lessened. I simply want RP farmers to suffer the punishment they deserve. A suspension is not enough.

It is laughable that you think 8man teams is enough to 'police' this activity. Throughout the years there have been many many cases on live of people publicly shaming RP farmers who have received no punishment and have enjoyed the fruits of their labors. They should be crushed utterly so that the behavior is stamped out.

if you knew your character could be deleted for doing something, you're far less likely to risk it than a 3d/4w ban especially if it got you an easy boost to RR5 or something, which is easily done if you know how.

It is not up to us to determine the severity, but a slap at the wrist for even trying is the very least they deserve. A person who has RP farmed himself to a high level will be caught, and get banned. An opportunist should get a slap on the hand and if that doesn't help, he will ultimately be banned. A person who are using tool assistance should not even get a chance.

I did not say that an 8 man can fix the problem, or I didn't mean it in that context. We as the players have a responsability, and 8 man and zerg can easily disrupt it if they find the areas people are RP farming at. The GM's needs feedback from the players, and they need the reports. But in the total amount, it doesn't hurt the gameplay as much as macroing which is why I presume it is just a slap at the wrist to begin with.

Fri 28 Sep 2018 5:32 AM by Haruspex

I'm sorry, but I feel you're underestimating the effect RP farming can have on a community.

You are correct that it's not up to us to decide the punishment, but this forum is created for us to directly speak to the developers and voice our concerns, so I am doing so in the hopes they will review their policy in this instance as I feel it is too lenient.

Fri 28 Sep 2018 10:22 AM by

gruenesschaf

5 is against game automation which among other things covers botting and chances are high if you got caught for botting on one char you did it on others as well -> deleting all chars is reasonable.