I know a few of us smite Cleric would absolutely love to get the range of smite extended. I know back in the old days the range was 1350, but with the class changes and updated RA's I was really hoping to get the range extended to 1500 units like the rest of the casters. Also, smite does not have a base chance to critical like other spells. You have a 0 chance to crit and adding Wild Power I will only give you 3% chance to crit...total.
I'd like to see a little help on the Smite line, atleast 1500 range it makes more sense. Heck even live looked at it and noticed something wrong
Heck if i had it my way i would get rid of the buff line all together and split the buffs between heal spec and Smite/nature/subterranean specs for Cleric, Druid, Shaman, (it would make for more interesting playstyles/classes. ( with a proper adjustments to possible points for allocation of course)
I'd love to know what your main is... I for one enjoy playing solo on classes that are said to not be viable just to prove people wrong. I love my smite cleric and I love soloing him I'd just like a lil attention to something that I feel has been overlooked. But go back to playing your bonedancer or necro and keep your negativity to yourself unless you have something more valuable to add to the discussion.
I'd love to know what your main is... I for one enjoy playing solo on classes that are said to not be viable just to prove people wrong. I love my smite cleric and I love soloing him I'd just like a lil attention to something that I feel has been overlooked. But go back to playing your bonedancer or necro and keep your negativity to yourself unless you have something more valuable to add to the discussion.
i you need a buff to prove them wrong, wouldnt that be proving them correct? the spec wasnt viable and replaced with other viable specs/classes in the group.
I'd love to know what your main is... I for one enjoy playing solo on classes that are said to not be viable just to prove people wrong. I love my smite cleric and I love soloing him I'd just like a lil attention to something that I feel has been overlooked. But go back to playing your bonedancer or necro and keep your negativity to yourself unless you have something more valuable to add to the discussion.
He is telling you what the dev's have done to the line and that they did it on purpose.
I like how you take your anger out on him though, pretty awesome on your part.
Dev's here decided they did not want Smite clerics to be a thing back in early beta. I don't remember the reason but they have no intentions of changing it the last I heard...now if you want to trash on me knock yourself out I could care less.
The smite-dd is the only usefull and reliable range interupttool for clerics. So 1500 range looks more then fair. Pretty sure that smite-cleric will not be fotm because of 150 more range.
Nah, no hate guys. I'm just not a fan of people putting proposals/suggestions out there and they get sh*t on with a no or that's dumb with followed by no logical rebuttal. Like I said, just looking for a little lovin on the class. Like it was stated before, an extra 150 range will, in no way, make smite a FOTM class.
I'd love to know what your main is... I for one enjoy playing solo on classes that are said to not be viable just to prove people wrong. I love my smite cleric and I love soloing him I'd just like a lil attention to something that I feel has been overlooked. But go back to playing your bonedancer or necro and keep your negativity to yourself unless you have something more valuable to add to the discussion.
He is telling you what the dev's have done to the line and that they did it on purpose.
I like how you take your anger out on him though, pretty awesome on your part.
Dev's here decided they did not want Smite clerics to be a thing back in early beta. I don't remember the reason but they have no intentions of changing it the last I heard...now if you want to trash on me knock yourself out I could care less.
See how you intelligently answered the question. I very much appreciate that. I had no idea it was an issue in beta nor that the dev's intentionally changed it. I'd love some more info about this if possible... or if we could get a GM to explain their views on it. /cheers
I'd love to know what your main is... I for one enjoy playing solo on classes that are said to not be viable just to prove people wrong. I love my smite cleric and I love soloing him I'd just like a lil attention to something that I feel has been overlooked. But go back to playing your bonedancer or necro and keep your negativity to yourself unless you have something more valuable to add to the discussion.
Actually it was green con at this patch level, it got bumped up to blue later on.
I don't recall that being the case. I believe that every pet that the druid got was a green con, until the last pet at 32 which upgraded to a a blue con.
Do you remember which patch this was?
As far as smite goes I think that the line SHOULD be viable, it makes little sense to have signature class lines that are so bad they aren't even worth considering for endgame play.
I have played a cleric recently in RvR, I played it smite/heal and buff/heal.
My conclusion: There is way too much imbalance of healing classes of albion compared with hib/mid.
This is how I would suggest to redesign the cleric smite line to make it viable:
Baseline Keep stun and give it 11sec baseline max duration like healer Give Amnesia baseline (same as healer) lvl 4, 3pp cost, 2300 range, 2sec cast. <-- REMOVE FROM SORC Give Amnesia aoe baseline (same as healer) <-- REMOVE FROM SORC The max lvl instant pbaoe mezz should be at 43 smite baseline.
Remove the damage add self spell
Spec Line At least Spec DD should become 1500 range, casttime of 2.6sec and have 10% critchance like any caster baseline DD The instant pbaoe DD should become a reaver-like aura on/off with mana cost per pulse. Remove the AoE spec damage spell and give it to sorcerer or paladin. Give 600sec CD instant stun of healer Give Shaman bolt line (throw hammer) spec
Bumping this because I as well would like to see what devs have to say. We get all these other QoL changes yet Smite Clerics are still in the actual dark age. Aug healers have more kills (at least solo) than a Smite Cleric. Will the devs ever address this instead of having the stance of, "you heal, no dmg" even though specs like Smite & Nature (Druid) on Live are quite strong but still not overtaking actual "pure class" roles.
Some of my greatest times were on my Nature Druid in Cathal Valley back when Live had Classic servers. Classes like Smite & Nature don't have that luxury here, but it should be an option. This isn't going to make people who made those classes to heal, all of a sudden switch specs.
At the bare minimum, up the spec DD to 1500 range, and give Smite similar changes Live did: a Snare PBAoE, maybe even add back the heal procs off the PBAoE damage. Small changes like this would bring a large QoL change to the people who do/want to play Smite.
I'm in the process of leveling my Smite Cleric despite their current stance, we can only hope that devs actually answer and address these issues.
P.S. OP (Bayou), I've seen you in vids from the Cave Shaman on YT. Those were the best matches!
After taking a small vacation from alb for a week or so, it is honestly kind of wild how much utility alb healers lack compared to the others. When no one is taking big damage you really just stand there.
Druids/Bards can spam interrupt with amnesia/root or put a pet on someone. While also having mez and demezz in the case of bard.
Healers and Shamans can really do it all, shaman healing is atrocious but when your main healer can also cc no real reason for them to heal.
Reducing the base nuke damage, increasing its range and reducing power cost would be a fair change that would allow clerics to atleast provide something else to the group. Your stun is good but also messes up slams.
After taking a small vacation from alb for a week or so, it is honestly kind of wild how much utility alb healers lack compared to the others. When no one is taking big damage you really just stand there.
Druids/Bards can spam interrupt with amnesia/root or put a pet on someone. While also having mez and demezz in the case of bard.
Healers and Shamans can really do it all, shaman healing is atrocious but when your main healer can also cc no real reason for them to heal.
Reducing the base nuke damage, increasing its range and reducing power cost would be a fair change that would allow clerics to atleast provide something else to the group. Your stun is good but also messes up slams.
they lack util because the other alb classes have a large amount of util, the common alb setup generally has atleast 4 pets in it, sometimes 5. youre just looking at the cleric in a vacuum and not the entire unit that is an alb group. also pacs are not the main healers generally augs have the large mend spec i believe.
After taking a small vacation from alb for a week or so, it is honestly kind of wild how much utility alb healers lack compared to the others. When no one is taking big damage you really just stand there.
Druids/Bards can spam interrupt with amnesia/root or put a pet on someone. While also having mez and demezz in the case of bard.
Healers and Shamans can really do it all, shaman healing is atrocious but when your main healer can also cc no real reason for them to heal.
Reducing the base nuke damage, increasing its range and reducing power cost would be a fair change that would allow clerics to atleast provide something else to the group. Your stun is good but also messes up slams.
they lack util because the other alb classes have a large amount of util, the common alb setup generally has atleast 4 pets in it, sometimes 5. youre just looking at the cleric in a vacuum and not the entire unit that is an alb group. also pacs are not the main healers generally augs have the large mend spec i believe.
What do you find unreasonable about having our shit nuke have the same range as regular caster nukes and not take up a ton of power? I didn’t feel like I was asking for a whole lot in comparison to a lot of other people...
After taking a small vacation from alb for a week or so, it is honestly kind of wild how much utility alb healers lack compared to the others. When no one is taking big damage you really just stand there.
Druids/Bards can spam interrupt with amnesia/root or put a pet on someone. While also having mez and demezz in the case of bard.
Healers and Shamans can really do it all, shaman healing is atrocious but when your main healer can also cc no real reason for them to heal.
Reducing the base nuke damage, increasing its range and reducing power cost would be a fair change that would allow clerics to atleast provide something else to the group. Your stun is good but also messes up slams.
they lack util because the other alb classes have a large amount of util, the common alb setup generally has atleast 4 pets in it, sometimes 5. youre just looking at the cleric in a vacuum and not the entire unit that is an alb group. also pacs are not the main healers generally augs have the large mend spec i believe.
What do you find unreasonable about having our shit nuke have the same range as regular caster nukes and not take up a ton of power? I didn’t feel like I was asking for a whole lot in comparison to a lot of other people...
so what would you take away from the other classes in your group to give you the added util?
they lack util because the other alb classes have a large amount of util, the common alb setup generally has atleast 4 pets in it, sometimes 5. youre just looking at the cleric in a vacuum and not the entire unit that is an alb group. also pacs are not the main healers generally augs have the large mend spec i believe.
What do you find unreasonable about having our shit nuke have the same range as regular caster nukes and not take up a ton of power? I didn’t feel like I was asking for a whole lot in comparison to a lot of other people...
so what would you take away from the other classes in your group to give you the added util?
The same range nuke as everyone else is added utility? Why do you purposely just try to argue on these forums and derail threads? I have seen you in so many threads now...
everyone knows alb bdy train is really really strong and if cleric becomes a nuker also we will have to face body/spirit trainds with 5 nukers LOL plz do not buff smite clerics with extended range
everyone knows alb bdy train is really really strong and if cleric becomes a nuker also we will have to face body/spirit trainds with 5 nukers LOL plz do not buff smite clerics with extended range
everyone knows alb bdy train is really really strong and if cleric becomes a nuker also we will have to face body/spirit trainds with 5 nukers LOL plz do not buff smite clerics with extended range
Just imagine they have all spirit dd-charges too
150 more range will kill the server!!11!
150 less range will kill the server!!11eins
Arguing in bad faith can be turned around so simply
everyone knows alb bdy train is really really strong and if cleric becomes a nuker also we will have to face body/spirit trainds with 5 nukers LOL plz do not buff smite clerics with extended range
Just imagine they have all spirit dd-charges too
150 more range will kill the server!!11!
150 less range will kill the server!!11eins
Arguing in bad faith can be turned around so simply
noone said that. more range would be mostly a convenience thing with a very small impact on gameplay. if there are any reasonable arguments against it, fine, then dont´t do it. But the idea that 150 more range made an albroup more op because of a debuff-train? cmon^^
Also pretty sure that it was not 100% serious, at least i hope so.
sorry, increasing cast ranges is not "a convenience thing" and while you might be correct that not much would change, that is a really weak argument to make for a change.
For a change to happen there should be a really strong reason. The burden lies on the PRO-change side, to provide reason why it is important that it happens. "why not" or "it will not have a huge impact" are not good reasons.
The other arguments mentioned here were:
"cleric doesn't have much to do when their group isn't taking damage" aka "when an albgroup is winning clerics can't make them "win-more""
and
"clerics have less than druids" at which point the counterargument is that Albgroups still have more than Hibgroups, and buffing cleric because of a 1to1classcomparison is not a good idea in a game like daoc. Since clerics and druids don't compete for groupspots with eachother
If i have missed anything in the summary, feel free to correct me, but that's my understanding of the discussion so far.
@Sepplord, the strong reason to buffing range to the same as EVERY class with ranged DD's is to make Smite somewhat viable.
Right now, Smite has no place at all in a group, and even solo a Smite Cleric has no actual way to disengage a fight outside of a 5-minute Mezz timer that will get purged anyway, so they end up having melee classes stuck to them with no way to actually cast their spells outside of MoC.
If the spec was strong solo like Cave Shaman, then at the very least the line would have a niche for it, but that's not the case. Every other "damage" line for the other main healers like Druid and Healer have a spot in the group due to the buffs they gain to add to the group, and even solo have more ways to deal with a lot of classes compared to Smite.
What does Smite do good?
It's not a fast or efficient leveling spec. It's not a group spec. It's not an efficient solo spec.
So yes, comparisons need to happen among other classes to differentiate the fact that all of their specs have SOMETHING they are good at, especially when those specs have group viability. If you're basing this game solely as a group-game, then the blatant fact is even more obvious that Smite has nothing to offer to a group that another class can't do at a far better rate.
The 150 range increase would at least allow the cleric to not being in obvious harm's way when trying to cast their DD's during a group fight. Even then no group would want them.
Now you are just jumping all over the place, bringing sololevelling and disengagement from a meleefight (what the hell does that have to do with DD-range? Oo) into the discussion. Suddenly it's the caveshaman comparison...but i don't think you really want to bring their healspecc into the discussion.
Smite is a subspecc, just like augmentation (for example) is a subspec for healer. Yeah, it's called Aughealer, but they are Mendinghealers if you want to be anal about it.
ularewolf wrote: Right now, Smite has no place at all in a group
Assuming 2clerics which is standard, what benefits does it have to have both of them buffspecced instead of one buff one smite?
I'm stating facts about the spec, and that involves me explaining that if Clerics were viable at SOMETHING, then yes a buff would need to be hard considered.
Aug has more synergies with the rest of the healer's specs, so an Aug healer can go into Mending and still have strong capabilities in group and solo.
Smite has no synergies with any of the Cleric's other lines, all Smite does is add some more damage, there is no group viability additions like the other specs offer, again like Aug Healer combat speed buff or Nature Druid's AoE Roots. Smite realistically is a very selfish line compared to really any other line in the game.
Also, two clerics, one is full Enhance and one is full Rejuv. Why would you have a Smite Cleric in replace of one of those? If you know of any actual groups that run a Smite Cleric, I would love to hear why and what they offer.
What do you find unreasonable about having our shit nuke have the same range as regular caster nukes and not take up a ton of power? I didn’t feel like I was asking for a whole lot in comparison to a lot of other people...
so what would you take away from the other classes in your group to give you the added util?
The same range nuke as everyone else is added utility? Why do you purposely just try to argue on these forums and derail threads? I have seen you in so many threads now...
yes, increased range is increased util. thats absurd for you to suggest otherwise. if you dont believe me, ask a bard lol. and this is not derailing the convo, im disputing your arguement and youre upset about it.
So albgrps run one cleric 50Enhancement and one cleric 50rejuvenation?
*Doubt*
And as i said, a "smite-cleric" for me is a reju/smite cleric... Just like an aughealer (and most often even pachealers) have their healingspec higher than the specline they are named after
And similar to the shaman not needing a healingline buff, clerics don't neccesarily need a smiteline buff. Especially since one of two clericgroupslots already can specc smite without losing anything, while the single shaman in a group would have to make sacrifices to utilize a better healing line.
I don't think it would break the game, but as mentioned, "it won't break the game" is a bad argument for a change. I am not convinced this change is needed or even beneficial to the server overall.
so what would you take away from the other classes in your group to give you the added util?
The same range nuke as everyone else is added utility? Why do you purposely just try to argue on these forums and derail threads? I have seen you in so many threads now...
yes, increased range is increased util. thats absurd for you to suggest otherwise. if you dont believe me, ask a bard lol. and this is not derailing the convo, im disputing your arguement and youre upset about it.
I'm not upset in the slightest, just an observation that in literally every thread I've browsed I've seen you in it arguing with someone. It makes it very hard to take anything you say seriously. Because it seems as that is your only actual goal.
Why would a Rejuv Cleric even spec into smite? If a Rejuv Cleric is smiting, the battle was already won, and that would be no point in even bothering.
Both Clerics can cast the baseline smite at that point and not have to worry wasting points into the Smite Line. Realstically, if two Clerics are in a group, they are probably similar specs all into the rejuv/enhance line of some sort.
I am really not trying to even debate about this, because it's very obvious Smite is in an awful spot. If you don't believe me, find me one thread or post highlighting the positives of Smite in any thread on this forum, or hell, even Uthgard forums/reddit. I've tried, it's always people saying how bad it is.
I don't think anyone is asking for Smite to get huge buffs. I am asking for small changes and ways to give them some group viability like a heal proc off their PBAoE damage or something.
For shiggles, I logged onto Live on my Smite Cleric and there he has ridiculous amounts of group synergy now. Even has a castable Mezz! Obviously Live is worlds different from Phoenix, but it's just an example of how much certain specs were given attention because they were subpar. Smite is one of those and needs some attention.
The same range nuke as everyone else is added utility? Why do you purposely just try to argue on these forums and derail threads? I have seen you in so many threads now...
yes, increased range is increased util. thats absurd for you to suggest otherwise. if you dont believe me, ask a bard lol. and this is not derailing the convo, im disputing your arguement and youre upset about it.
I'm not upset in the slightest, just an observation that in literally every thread I've browsed I've seen you in it arguing with someone. It makes it very hard to take anything you say seriously. Because it seems as that is your only actual goal.
i dont know whats hard to take seriously about more range = more util? seems like a pretty simple notion that is absolutely true. i guess being objective is hard for you sometimes.
yes, increased range is increased util. thats absurd for you to suggest otherwise. if you dont believe me, ask a bard lol. and this is not derailing the convo, im disputing your arguement and youre upset about it.
I'm not upset in the slightest, just an observation that in literally every thread I've browsed I've seen you in it arguing with someone. It makes it very hard to take anything you say seriously. Because it seems as that is your only actual goal.
i dont know whats hard to take seriously about more range = more util? seems like a pretty simple notion that is absolutely true. i guess being objective is hard for you sometimes.
It's also pretty simple that I'm advocating for it to have reduced damage and power cost but the SAME range as every other nuke in the game. Why doesn't healer have a reduced range on their interrupts? Druid? Bard? Why is cleric the only one? Don't even bother with the group utility argument because that can be said in so many cases across all the realms. Obviously mid is on the lower end because its more melee centric, which supports your point. And I actually agree with. Honestly, the changes I'm suggesting are so small that they wouldn't change a whole lot for any other realm but would make the cleric just that much more fluid to play.
I'm not upset in the slightest, just an observation that in literally every thread I've browsed I've seen you in it arguing with someone. It makes it very hard to take anything you say seriously. Because it seems as that is your only actual goal.
i dont know whats hard to take seriously about more range = more util? seems like a pretty simple notion that is absolutely true. i guess being objective is hard for you sometimes.
It's also pretty simple that I'm advocating for it to have reduced damage and power cost but the SAME range as every other nuke in the game. Why doesn't healer have a reduced range on their interrupts? Druid? Bard? Why is cleric the only one? Don't even bother with the group utility argument because that can be said in so many cases across all the realms. Obviously mid is on the lower end because its more melee centric, which supports your point. And I actually agree with. Honestly, the changes I'm suggesting are so small that they wouldn't change a whole lot for any other realm but would make the cleric just that much more fluid to play.
you cant just take the best argument and say you cant use that lol. would it make the cleric more fluid to play or fun to play, i think you meant fun and the game isnt really balanced around fun. youre looking at cleric in a vacum and not the whole that is an alb group. alb group already has a large amount of util, to give increase range (more rupts) to their group would be pretty crazy. who should they take util from in order to give it to you? the common alb setup has 4 pets in it, sometimes 5.
i dont know whats hard to take seriously about more range = more util? seems like a pretty simple notion that is absolutely true. i guess being objective is hard for you sometimes.
It's also pretty simple that I'm advocating for it to have reduced damage and power cost but the SAME range as every other nuke in the game. Why doesn't healer have a reduced range on their interrupts? Druid? Bard? Why is cleric the only one? Don't even bother with the group utility argument because that can be said in so many cases across all the realms. Obviously mid is on the lower end because its more melee centric, which supports your point. And I actually agree with. Honestly, the changes I'm suggesting are so small that they wouldn't change a whole lot for any other realm but would make the cleric just that much more fluid to play.
you cant just take the best argument and say you cant use that lol. would it make the cleric more fluid to play or fun to play, i think you meant fun and the game isnt really balanced around fun. youre looking at cleric in a vacum and not the whole that is an alb group. alb group already has a large amount of util, to give increase range (more rupts) to their group would be pretty crazy. who should they take util from in order to give it to you? the common alb setup has 4 pets in it, sometimes 5.
I'm saying you can't use that because it's just not valid. Hib groups have tons of utility yet druids still can interrupt nicely from farther than 1350 range. It's also not very hard to clear yellow/blue sorc pets. The same way its super easy to clear BD pets. I'll give you theurg pets because those can be more difficult to deal with.
It's also pretty simple that I'm advocating for it to have reduced damage and power cost but the SAME range as every other nuke in the game. Why doesn't healer have a reduced range on their interrupts? Druid? Bard? Why is cleric the only one? Don't even bother with the group utility argument because that can be said in so many cases across all the realms. Obviously mid is on the lower end because its more melee centric, which supports your point. And I actually agree with. Honestly, the changes I'm suggesting are so small that they wouldn't change a whole lot for any other realm but would make the cleric just that much more fluid to play.
you cant just take the best argument and say you cant use that lol. would it make the cleric more fluid to play or fun to play, i think you meant fun and the game isnt really balanced around fun. youre looking at cleric in a vacum and not the whole that is an alb group. alb group already has a large amount of util, to give increase range (more rupts) to their group would be pretty crazy. who should they take util from in order to give it to you? the common alb setup has 4 pets in it, sometimes 5.
I'm saying you can't use that because it's just not valid. Hib groups have tons of utility yet druids still can interrupt nicely from farther than 1350 range. It's also not very hard to clear yellow/blue sorc pets. The same way its super easy to clear BD pets. I'll give you theurg pets because those can be more difficult to deal with.
it is valid rofl, you even aknowledged it as being valid. (ill underline for you) you just want more range on your cleric so you can rupt and have more fun. thats all this is. alb isnt lacking, youre just lacking fun. also, alb has more classes with 2300 range rupt, hib has less.
you cant just take the best argument and say you cant use that lol. would it make the cleric more fluid to play or fun to play, i think you meant fun and the game isnt really balanced around fun. youre looking at cleric in a vacum and not the whole that is an alb group. alb group already has a large amount of util, to give increase range (more rupts) to their group would be pretty crazy. who should they take util from in order to give it to you? the common alb setup has 4 pets in it, sometimes 5.
I'm saying you can't use that because it's just not valid. Hib groups have tons of utility yet druids still can interrupt nicely from farther than 1350 range. It's also not very hard to clear yellow/blue sorc pets. The same way its super easy to clear BD pets. I'll give you theurg pets because those can be more difficult to deal with.
it is valid rofl, you even aknowledged it as being valid. (ill underline for you) you just want more range on your cleric so you can rupt and have more fun. thats all this is. alb isnt lacking, youre just lacking fun. also, alb has more classes with 2300 range rupt, hib has less.
it is valid rofl, you even aknowledged it as being valid. (ill underline for you) you just want more range on your cleric so you can rupt and have more fun. thats all this is. alb isnt lacking, youre just lacking fun. also, alb has more classes with 2300 range rupt, hib has less.
Relax Mole.
tell walley he can eat a dick. youre still wrong and your idea is dumb.
It's also pretty simple that I'm advocating for it to have reduced damage and power cost but the SAME range as every other nuke in the game. Why doesn't healer have a reduced range on their interrupts? Druid? Bard? Why is cleric the only one? Don't even bother with the group utility argument because that can be said in so many cases across all the realms. Obviously mid is on the lower end because its more melee centric, which supports your point. And I actually agree with. Honestly, the changes I'm suggesting are so small that they wouldn't change a whole lot for any other realm but would make the cleric just that much more fluid to play.
you cant just take the best argument and say you cant use that lol. would it make the cleric more fluid to play or fun to play, i think you meant fun and the game isnt really balanced around fun. youre looking at cleric in a vacum and not the whole that is an alb group. alb group already has a large amount of util, to give increase range (more rupts) to their group would be pretty crazy. who should they take util from in order to give it to you? the common alb setup has 4 pets in it, sometimes 5.
I'm saying you can't use that because it's just not valid. Hib groups have tons of utility yet druids still can interrupt nicely from farther than 1350 range. It's also not very hard to clear yellow/blue sorc pets. The same way its super easy to clear BD pets. I'll give you theurg pets because those can be more difficult to deal with.
never forget. you acknowledged it and wish you didnt. alb group has a large amount of util. youre just on the class that lacks it. go play another support if your cleric is boring, but there is certainly nothing wrong with cleric.
centenario and him need to get together and see who can come up with the dumbest idea / fix to a non-issue. maybe even do some dmg / survivability tests on non-SCed chars lol.
Realistically there is an issue. Just as I was speaking with the other person, you can't find a thread stating anything positive about Smite (in this era of DAoC 1.65).
I don't think anyone is saying the Cleric is not a good class in general, but simply stating Smite as a spec needs some attention given to it to make it viable.. It's not viable in PvE or RvR as of now. Power usage on spec DD is ridiculously high, has same cast time and range as base DD. You're literally putting points into a line to get a more sustainable nuke with no other added benefits.
Speccing into a line means it's supposed to commit your character to a more specific role, hence why it's a specialization. If that role is not a role you can obtain due to other classes/specs doing it far better than you, then that is a flaw of the spec.
Again, the Cleric class is fine, the Smite line is not.
Realistically there is an issue. Just as I was speaking with the other person, you can't find a thread stating anything positive about Smite (in this era of DAoC 1.65).
I don't think anyone is saying the Cleric is not a good class in general, but simply stating Smite as a spec needs some attention given to it to make it viable.. It's not viable in PvE or RvR as of now. Power usage on spec DD is ridiculously high, has same cast time and range as base DD. You're literally putting points into a line to get a more sustainable nuke with no other added benefits.
Speccing into a line means it's supposed to commit your character to a more specific role, hence why it's a specialization. If that role is not a role you can obtain due to other classes/specs doing it far better than you, then that is a flaw of the spec.
Again, the Cleric class is fine, the Smite line is not.
everyone likes to talk about how this game is balanced around 8v8, so im going to use that same logic here since it so often thrown in my face. you are looking at cleric in a vacuum and not the whole unit that is an alb group. albs already have a large amount of util baked into there common group setups. increasing smite range is extra util/rupts. do alb groups as a whole need a buff? i dont think so. the body debuff train is quite good and the common setup generally has 4 pets, sometimes 5. not to mention the range on their casters. they have multiple (more than the other realms) classes with 2300 range spells, and they are commonly specced into. im not counting the specs no one runs like earth wizards and shit.
Well with that logic as well, we are basically agreeing that some specs need to be completely useless in every sense of the word, because other classes are... Better, I guess? That doesn't sit well with me. That's like taking a scale of classes from each realm, and let's say Sorc is so good it's tipping the scale over, but then you put Smite there and all of a sudden it tips completely the other way. Are we then saying we need to nerf other classes before Smite gets a buff?
But me, I don't agree with that. We would also then be looking at the cleric in a vacuum of being balanced solely around 8v8 RvR, when there are many other factors in the game, including PvE that you need to actually get through to have a chance to, let's say, go on an 8v8 RvR group. Maybe others think this game is solely balanced around that, but then it's just the pot calling the kettle black, because the class needs to be balanced around at the bare minimum, PvE and RvR. I won't even look at small-man/zerging even, and at that point Smite is still useless in both aspects.
I just want to know, from anyone, what Smite is good for in its current state and how it can be effective... Again, in its current state, in any situation. I've done my research, I've searched multiple forums and threads about Smite when it was based around 1.65, and I never saw a single person ever say "the spec is viable". PvE is slow and inefficient, RvR is power hungry for subpar damage and low range.
On Live, Smite has been (from this patch of 1.65) buffed, nerfed, and buffed again. Probably nerfed again somewhere, I just haven't checked up on Live enough, but as I said in a previous post, I logged onto my Smite Cleric and he has plenty of group utility there. There are ways to improve the Smite line to make it a viable spec for 8v8. If we wanna talk about balance to 8v8, Smite has none at all, that another class can't offer far better. It's not a vacuum, since with the logic of every class being balanced around an 8v8 atmosphere, then that means every spec needs to be viable in that setting, which Smite isn't.
Also, at this point, with how many views and replies this thread has, I really wish a dev would acknowledge something about this.
Also, at this point, with how many views and replies this thread has, I really wish a dev would acknowledge something about this.
I just don't think that smite is very high on the devs' agenda. Other classes have similar issues: bard, warden - whose battle specs are also completely pointless. But it has repeatedly been said that the warden in particular is "in a good place" (see Uthred's comments on the subject), despite the fact that it basically has one viable spec and no alternatives. And I think because the cleric isn't broken in the way that archery was sort of broken (which affected the main ability of those classes), I don't think we are going to see any changes very soon...
Also, at this point, with how many views and replies this thread has, I really wish a dev would acknowledge something about this.
I just don't think that smite is very high on the devs' agenda. Other classes have similar issues: bard, warden - whose battle specs are also completely pointless. But it has repeatedly been said that the warden in particular is "in a good place" (see Uthred's comments on the subject), despite the fact that it basically has one viable spec and no alternatives. And I think because the cleric isn't broken in the way that archery was sort of broken (which affected the main ability of those classes), I don't think we are going to see any changes very soon...
Warden is god awful BORING Sure they may be decent at the job but I’d like them to be more engaging They need a fix far more than cleric
sorry, increasing cast ranges is not "a convenience thing" and while you might be correct that not much would change, that is a really weak argument to make for a change.
For a change to happen there should be a really strong reason. The burden lies on the PRO-change side, to provide reason why it is important that it happens. "why not" or "it will not have a huge impact" are not good reasons.
The other arguments mentioned here were:
"cleric doesn't have much to do when their group isn't taking damage" aka "when an albgroup is winning clerics can't make them "win-more""
and
"clerics have less than druids" at which point the counterargument is that Albgroups still have more than Hibgroups, and buffing cleric because of a 1to1classcomparison is not a good idea in a game like daoc. Since clerics and druids don't compete for groupspots with eachother
If i have missed anything in the summary, feel free to correct me, but that's my understanding of the discussion so far.
convenience is always a weak argument. but at least it is an argument. and if no reasonable argument stand against it, it is enough. if someone brings the slightest, gameplay relevant and reasonable argument against 150 more locs, fine. but honestly, i can not see one in this whole thread.
anyways, it is either way far from "unplayable", so clearly not a reason to start world war III over it. i would be happy if i could get my 150 more locs somedays, that´s it.
Bumping this because I as well would like to see what devs have to say. We get all these other QoL changes yet Smite Clerics are still in the actual dark age. Aug healers have more kills (at least solo) than a Smite Cleric. Will the devs ever address this instead of having the stance of, "you heal, no dmg" even though specs like Smite & Nature (Druid) on Live are quite strong but still not overtaking actual "pure class" roles.
Some of my greatest times were on my Nature Druid in Cathal Valley back when Live had Classic servers. Classes like Smite & Nature don't have that luxury here, but it should be an option. This isn't going to make people who made those classes to heal, all of a sudden switch specs.
At the bare minimum, up the spec DD to 1500 range, and give Smite similar changes Live did: a Snare PBAoE, maybe even add back the heal procs off the PBAoE damage. Small changes like this would bring a large QoL change to the people who do/want to play Smite.
I'm in the process of leveling my Smite Cleric despite their current stance, we can only hope that devs actually answer and address these issues.
P.S. OP (Bayou), I've seen you in vids from the Cave Shaman on YT. Those were the best matches!
haha thanks man. been away from game/forums for a bit and just catching back up on the hype over the smite thing again. Don't think the Dev's give two sh!ts about messing with smite. guess i'll just sit back and watch what happens.
That's all i'm asking, really. The main point is the nuke range. I know the power consumption, cast time, no crit chance, no damage variance speccing higher in smite are all issues but i'd just love to see a measly 150 unit range increase.
Me vs casters always sucks because they wait for me to run well into range to nuke or i have to stun then run into range which costs me 1-2 casts..
While I'm well aware there are other fixes on other classes that take priority i feel that a simple tweek to range isn't that big of a task for the Devs. I'd love some sort of feedback from them at some point.
Another thread on this? Cleric sorc is the strongest duo in the game.
This prevents any buffs to the cleric no matter how much you want your solo cleric to be viable.
As someone said earlier, if this game is based around 8v8 viability, then the duo doesn't matter and isn't taken into the equation. Being solo has no reason behind the needed buffs, it's a side effect due to no one wanting a smite cleric in their groups.
Smite was never nerfed because of a "sorc/cleric duo", Smite was nerfed because it was complained about, by mainly Albs because they claimed Smite Clerics were "Chain-wearing Wizards". What this caused was eventually Mythic to relook at the spec and tone it down due to the "offensive and defensive melee capabilities of the Cleric versus a normal caster".
The fact is though, that a class/spec that was once considered "op" to get nerfed so far down that no one wants a smite cleric within 20 feet of them, is something of a true flaw that Mythic didn't fix until later on way after 1.65. But the fact is, it was fixed, and the devs here have the ability to look at how Smite progressed through the years to determine a proper fix for them, because this is after all a CUSTOM server and in no way a true replication of what kind of game DAoC was back in 1.65 (which is near the end of 2003 FYI).
So in conclusion, your statement is invalid and I figured I'd educate you a bit since I've looked into the history of Smite more than most people probably have, that's because I am not someone who would make suggestions to a class if I didn't feel it was highly validated. Mind you, a smite cleric can solo decently provided they have all their RA's up, this isn't really the issue. The issue is they have no place anywhere else other than solo.
Another thread on this? Cleric sorc is the strongest duo in the game.
This prevents any buffs to the cleric no matter how much you want your solo cleric to be viable.
I'm unsure of why this is even brought up? So you're saying that an extra 150 range will make sorc/cleric hands down totally unstoppable, dominate every other duo..team?
I can name many, MANY other combos that are just as insane but this one thought is why you think clerics don't need an extra 150 range???
Sounds like somebody scared of getting beat by a smiter.
Another thread on this? Cleric sorc is the strongest duo in the game.
This prevents any buffs to the cleric no matter how much you want your solo cleric to be viable.
As someone said earlier, if this game is based around 8v8 viability, then the duo doesn't matter and isn't taken into the equation. Being solo has no reason behind the needed buffs, it's a side effect due to no one wanting a smite cleric in their groups.
Smite was never nerfed because of a "sorc/cleric duo", Smite was nerfed because it was complained about, by mainly Albs because they claimed Smite Clerics were "Chain-wearing Wizards". What this caused was eventually Mythic to relook at the spec and tone it down due to the "offensive and defensive melee capabilities of the Cleric versus a normal caster".
The fact is though, that a class/spec that was once considered "op" to get nerfed so far down that no one wants a smite cleric within 20 feet of them, is something of a true flaw that Mythic didn't fix until later on way after 1.65. But the fact is, it was fixed, and the devs here have the ability to look at how Smite progressed through the years to determine a proper fix for them, because this is after all a CUSTOM server and in no way a true replication of what kind of game DAoC was back in 1.65 (which is near the end of 2003 FYI).
So in conclusion, your statement is invalid and I figured I'd educate you a bit since I've looked into the history of Smite more than most people probably have, that's because I am not someone who would make suggestions to a class if I didn't feel it was highly validated. Mind you, a smite cleric can solo decently provided they have all their RA's up, this isn't really the issue. The issue is they have no place anywhere else other than solo.
"Then why no balance changes? Well, there is not a single change left aside from maybe the 150 range to smite cleric spells that wouldn't cause the greatest QQ about that change heralding the end of the world."
I've pulled that sentence from gruenesschaf in the mount thread. So they do know about it.
"Then why no balance changes? Well, there is not a single change left aside from maybe the 150 range to smite cleric spells that wouldn't cause the greatest QQ about that change heralding the end of the world."
I've pulled that sentence from gruenesschaf in the mount thread. So they do know about it.
Is it just me or did that seem promising for the 150 range increase??
"Then why no balance changes? Well, there is not a single change left aside from maybe the 150 range to smite cleric spells that wouldn't cause the greatest QQ about that change heralding the end of the world."
I've pulled that sentence from gruenesschaf in the mount thread. So they do know about it.
Is it just me or did that seem promising for the 150 range increase??
kinda getting excited here...
Seems to me it’s a guaranteed change. At least it’s being noticed without necessarily posting in this thread. I’ll take what I can get.
Actually it was green con at this patch level, it got bumped up to blue later on.
I don't recall that being the case. I believe that every pet that the druid got was a green con, until the last pet at 32 which upgraded to a a blue con.
Do you remember which patch this was?
As far as smite goes I think that the line SHOULD be viable, it makes little sense to have signature class lines that are so bad they aren't even worth considering for endgame play.
Just googled searched it, it was patch 1.98 on may 6 2009. snipet below:
Druids The summoned pets in the Nature Specialization line have all had their health increased by 5%. Additionally, the following pets have had their max level when summoned adjusted as follows: Level 32 - Call Greater Nature Bear, Lynx, Wolf, Tree - Pet will summon at 76% of Caster's *Level. Level 43 - Call Elder Nature Bear - Pet will summon at 88% of Caster's *Level. Level 44 - Call Elder Nature Lynx - Pet will summon at 88% of Caster's *Level. Level 45 - Call Elder Nature Wolf, Tree - Pet will summon at 88% of Caster's *Level.
no worries. you doing the work! gotta keep this thread alive until GM's acknowledge it!
They've already acknowledged on other threads that they want players to play their classes a certain way with certain specs and that's it. I wish it weren't so but it's a very "John at Broadsword" mentality, unfortunately.
Since this post was drowned out in the June Changes thread, here are my ideas for Smite post-range buff.
With range added, can we please look at other ways to benefit the line, because this is just a small addition? There are many ways to do this without making clerics too strong, you can easily look at live's cleric and pick out pieces from it.
Proposed changes I'd like to make are from changes Live made to Cleric's at some point.
Bringing smite-spec DD cast time to 2.8-2.6 seconds (similar to other hybrids/casters) PBAE group heal attached to PBAE DD. PBAE Snare. PBAE Heal attached to Smite DD (centered on target). Adding another smite spec DD after 43 that has a caster-spec DD delve while removing the pbae heal associated with other smite dd's to choose to be more offensive or defensive. (210 delve)
These are all things that the cleric had added at some point or another to make smite more group viable.
Now if we are looking at custom server changes, I'd also like to recommend the following:
Lower Smite DD Spec Power cost. Move damage add to base smite (similar to nature druid base damage add) Move melee damage % increase that's in enhancement line to smite line, (This will enable non-smites to still do some melee damage and overall increase smite cleric's melee damage) Smite-spec DDs have spirit debuff ability attached to them, or a castable spirit debuff like other classes. Offensive melee DD-proc. Defensive snare, heal, or ablative proc. Castable single target mezz. (this is on live)
Adding RR5 RA's would also help due to cleric's being a 50% melee chance defensive stun proc.
These are all ideas, that I think can be balanced depending on which ones were to be chosen from them.
Major feat guys! Thanks for all the support and suggestions. We'll hit the crit/power consumption later, but I'll take this for now.
Much love and see you out on the battlefield!
-Bayou
Remember to make that apply to shamans aswell
Yup, any non-cloth caster starts with 0% crit. My take is that it's the tradeoff for supposedly not being squishy. But the crit chance changes for WP disproportionately affected non-cloth casters.
Since this post was drowned out in the June Changes thread, here are my ideas for Smite post-range buff.
With range added, can we please look at other ways to benefit the line, because this is just a small addition? There are many ways to do this without making clerics too strong, you can easily look at live's cleric and pick out pieces from it.
Proposed changes I'd like to make are from changes Live made to Cleric's at some point.
Bringing smite-spec DD cast time to 2.8-2.6 seconds (similar to other hybrids/casters) PBAE group heal attached to PBAE DD. PBAE Snare. PBAE Heal attached to Smite DD (centered on target). Adding another smite spec DD after 43 that has a caster-spec DD delve while removing the pbae heal associated with other smite dd's to choose to be more offensive or defensive. (210 delve)
These are all things that the cleric had added at some point or another to make smite more group viable.
Now if we are looking at custom server changes, I'd also like to recommend the following:
Lower Smite DD Spec Power cost. Move damage add to base smite (similar to nature druid base damage add) Move melee damage % increase that's in enhancement line to smite line, (This will enable non-smites to still do some melee damage and overall increase smite cleric's melee damage) Smite-spec DDs have spirit debuff ability attached to them, or a castable spirit debuff like other classes. Offensive melee DD-proc. Defensive snare, heal, or ablative proc. Castable single target mezz. (this is on live)
Adding RR5 RA's would also help due to cleric's being a 50% melee chance defensive stun proc.
These are all ideas, that I think can be balanced depending on which ones were to be chosen from them.
please, no heal on DD ... you can up to 32 heal if you spec 43smite keep add damage in spec line, why do you want it in base line ? take the heal proc in buff spec to the base buff ...
yes, need a little "buff" on the power cost, too expensive than other spell we have and compared to other class
love the idea for the mezz and the snare but i think it will be just a dream
