Archers! - Phoenix Freeshard

Is there anything that is going to be done about how poorly archers are doing in rvr?

Lacking dodger and with poor detection range, they are bearly playable.

Sat 9 Feb 2019 12:22 AM by Isavyr

Niget wrote: ↑
Sat 9 Feb 2019 12:20 AM
Is there anything that is going to be done about how poorly archers are doing in rvr?

Lacking dodger and with poor detection range, they are bearly playable.

Do you think you should call the developers on the phone? I'm worried you won't get a response after five threads on this issue.

Sat 9 Feb 2019 12:23 AM by florin

Go melee be happy 😆

Sat 9 Feb 2019 1:18 AM by Niget

Isavyr wrote: ↑
Sat 9 Feb 2019 12:22 AM
Niget wrote: ↑
Sat 9 Feb 2019 12:20 AM
Is there anything that is going to be done about how poorly archers are doing in rvr?

Lacking dodger and with poor detection range, they are bearly playable.

Do you think you should call the developers on the phone? I'm worried you won't get a response after five threads on this issue.

I'm starting to feel like you internet stalk my through these forums!

Not going to lie, I have started two of those! But it is an important topic!
It a community driven game! And even with a few loud naysayers, a lot of people care about the outcome of this!

Sat 9 Feb 2019 7:42 PM by poopiedoggie

He is correct. I'm RR4 and still get trashed by assassins. Damage is fine but I have no way to avoid a perf. They see me a mile away and can run right up to me before I see them. Toe to toe without them perfing me I stand a chance. If they perf me I might as well sit down, especially if purge is down.

Let's not forget our insanely low weaponskill and high miss rate.

Sat 9 Feb 2019 7:46 PM by Isavyr

poopiedoggie wrote: ↑
Sat 9 Feb 2019 7:42 PM
He is correct. I'm RR4 and still get trashed by assassins. Damage is fine but I have no way to avoid a perf. They see me a mile away and can run right up to me before I see them. Toe to toe without them perfing me I stand a chance. If they perf me I might as well sit down, especially if purge is down.

Let's not forget our insanely low weaponskill and high miss rate.

250 units is a mile to you? Well, then I have a suggestion: Constantly spin 360 degrees--really quickly. Nobody will ever PA you, I promise.

Sat 9 Feb 2019 7:59 PM by Kuschell

Isavyr wrote: ↑
Sat 9 Feb 2019 7:46 PM
poopiedoggie wrote: ↑
Sat 9 Feb 2019 7:42 PM
He is correct. I'm RR4 and still get trashed by assassins. Damage is fine but I have no way to avoid a perf. They see me a mile away and can run right up to me before I see them. Toe to toe without them perfing me I stand a chance. If they perf me I might as well sit down, especially if purge is down.

Let's not forget our insanely low weaponskill and high miss rate.

250 units is a mile to you? Well, then I have a suggestion: Constantly spin 360 degrees--really quickly. Nobody will ever PA you, I promise.

Haha man you made my day everytime i read one of your posts i can only laugh. Honestly stop to spam the archer threads with your theory and paper daoc stuff. Roll a archer play him and then come back. Or sorry whats the name and rr of your archer again? Ah no you stated you play a assasin

Sat 9 Feb 2019 8:06 PM by Isavyr

Kuschell wrote: ↑
Sat 9 Feb 2019 7:59 PM
Isavyr wrote: ↑
Sat 9 Feb 2019 7:46 PM
Haha man you made my day everytime i read one of your posts i can only laugh. Honestly stop to spam the archer threads with your theory and paper daoc stuff. Roll a archer play him and then come back. Or sorry whats the name and rr of your archer again? Ah no you stated you play a assasin

OK I'm back! Ready to attack my points yet?

Sat 9 Feb 2019 8:35 PM by inoeth

dont answer this troll!

Sun 10 Feb 2019 5:20 PM by Sepplord

Kuschell wrote: ↑
Sat 9 Feb 2019 7:59 PM
Isavyr wrote: ↑
Sat 9 Feb 2019 7:46 PM
poopiedoggie wrote: ↑
Sat 9 Feb 2019 7:42 PM
He is correct. I'm RR4 and still get trashed by assassins. Damage is fine but I have no way to avoid a perf. They see me a mile away and can run right up to me before I see them. Toe to toe without them perfing me I stand a chance. If they perf me I might as well sit down, especially if purge is down.

Let's not forget our insanely low weaponskill and high miss rate.

250 units is a mile to you? Well, then I have a suggestion: Constantly spin 360 degrees--really quickly. Nobody will ever PA you, I promise.

Haha man you made my day everytime i read one of your posts i can only laugh. Honestly stop to spam the archer threads with your theory and paper daoc stuff. Roll a archer play him and then come back. Or sorry whats the name and rr of your archer again? Ah no you stated you play a assasin

To be fair though, when i read the claims of archers being seen miles away i wonder if they have played an Assassin. So have you? (Serious question, i havent so it very well might be True, but 250+detectionticks shouldnt show archers very early)

Maybe a Video would help showcase the problem...

Sun 10 Feb 2019 10:42 PM by Horus

florin wrote: ↑
Sat 9 Feb 2019 12:23 AM
Go melee be happy 😆

I'm curious about this. I would like to hear from a melee spec Ranger on how they are doing? I'm sorta hybrid spec, leaning heavier on bow and low RR ATM. I don't stand a chance in melee against any other class ATM... but I am not maxed out with a template and RAs yet so I am holding out hope...

Was pretty sad the other day.. got the jump on a Hunter running out of stealth..pumped about 3 arrows into him 44(+13) bow. Had him down to 30% or so. He was still able to get to me and melee me down and kill with himself and his pet. His pet hit harder than my hybrid melee spec dual wield +PF buffs.

Sun 10 Feb 2019 11:51 PM by Emeryc

Horus wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Feb 2019 10:42 PM
florin wrote: ↑
Sat 9 Feb 2019 12:23 AM
Go melee be happy 😆

I'm curious about this. I would like to hear from a melee spec Ranger on how they are doing? I'm sorta hybrid spec, leaning heavier on bow and low RR ATM. I don't stand a chance in melee against any other class ATM... but I am not maxed out with a template and RAs yet so I am holding out hope...

Was pretty sad the other day.. got the jump on a Hunter running out of stealth..pumped about 3 arrows into him 44(+13) bow. Had him down to 30% or so. He was still able to get to me and melee me down and kill with himself and his pet. His pet hit harder than my hybrid melee spec dual wield +PF buffs.

He was probably heavy melee spec. He may have also been fully templated. Believe me, I'm not making excuses and I believe Archery needs buffing. But this kind of anecdotal evidence is hard to make useful. All that said, I feel your pain, man!

Mon 11 Feb 2019 3:19 AM by Horus

Emeryc wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Feb 2019 11:51 PM
Horus wrote: ↑
Sun 10 Feb 2019 10:42 PM
florin wrote: ↑
Sat 9 Feb 2019 12:23 AM
Go melee be happy 😆

I'm curious about this. I would like to hear from a melee spec Ranger on how they are doing? I'm sorta hybrid spec, leaning heavier on bow and low RR ATM. I don't stand a chance in melee against any other class ATM... but I am not maxed out with a template and RAs yet so I am holding out hope...

Was pretty sad the other day.. got the jump on a Hunter running out of stealth..pumped about 3 arrows into him 44(+13) bow. Had him down to 30% or so. He was still able to get to me and melee me down and kill with himself and his pet. His pet hit harder than my hybrid melee spec dual wield +PF buffs.
He was probably heavy melee spec. He may have also been fully templated. Believe me, I'm not making excuses and I believe Archery needs buffing. But this kind of anecdotal evidence is hard to make useful. All that said, I feel your pain, man!

Yea, I am far from ideally setup at the moment.. so yea, anecdotal. But I am still curious as to how an "ideal" melee spec is doing...That seems to be rallying call of many "screw bow, spec melee" but I have not heard nor seen any real life evidence on Phoenix it actually works...

Fri 22 Feb 2019 12:36 AM by Stimmed

YamYam is the only Ranger to really put up a fight. And he is tough.

Check his spec. with IP up he has a very high chance to win hell I have lost to him without it with with some bad luck on evades etc.

Also if a archer is not moving yeah sure you can see and get a perf off. But if your moving they move the same speed you dont always have a free Perf/BS2. So don't stand still constantly move?.

Fri 22 Feb 2019 1:37 AM by Zansobar

The devs have stated they are looking into the archer issues and will decide internally if and if so what they are going to do anything about it.

Fri 22 Feb 2019 6:03 AM by Cadebrennus

Zansobar wrote: ↑
Fri 22 Feb 2019 1:37 AM
The devs have stated they are looking into the archer issues and will decide internally if and if so what they are going to do anything about it.

The sad part is that anyone actually believes this.
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I've been telling Devs (with screenshots and logs) about problems with Archers since beta only to have them do nothing.

Fri 22 Feb 2019 6:13 AM by Druth

Cadebrennus wrote: ↑
Fri 22 Feb 2019 6:03 AM
I've been telling Devs (with screenshots and logs) about problems with Archers since beta only to have them do nothing.

Prob because they care more about actual gameplay than paper daoc.

And as Beta showed, people love to play stealthers, but hate playing against them.

Fri 22 Feb 2019 6:35 AM by imamo

inb lock, they said they are working on it. let's see what they will come up with.

problem is not solely damage it self. i find damage is satisfying with 35 skill. when you put 50 skill and have a tiny damage boost, i call it trash. putting skill beyond +35 skill have very little return as damage or have no utility.

archers designed to be part of stealth wars even they are meant to kill/spoil stealthers with speccing realted ra's and long cd abilities. currently it is not possible and they are not even close to become threat to assassins and they have big bright sign on over head "free rp" written on it.

Fri 22 Feb 2019 6:39 AM by Sepplord

maybe also because archers have really really good zerging abilities, groupadding capabilities from "safer" positions (compared to assassins) etc...
the archers complaining are mostly overexxagerating and ignoring all their benefits and focussing on their weakspots

there's a reason the highest solo-players are archers. No-lifing is one reason, yes ofcourse. But i doubt that these players are intentionally slogging through an almost unplayable class.

Fri 22 Feb 2019 7:19 AM by krumr

Haven't devs said that they are considering this internally?
We may as well wait and see what they come up with at this point: let's hope they make the archery skill line more interesting/appealing, especially over 35 pts (it's a skill line exclusive to archers after all), and define the archers role a bit more.

Fri 22 Feb 2019 7:43 AM by Durgrim

krumr wrote: ↑
Fri 22 Feb 2019 7:19 AM
Haven't devs said that they are considering this internally?
We may as well wait and see what they come up with at this point: let's hope they make the archery skill line more interesting/appealing, especially over 35 pts (it's a skill line exclusive to archers after all), and define the archers role a bit more.

couldn't agree more.
I do understand ioneth's point and fully agree with him that the majority of the hunter players remembers the class as a melee subpar stealther who could use a bow.
So speccing into sniper hunter towards 50 archery could be paired with a loss of stealth/MoS/stealth speed.

Fri 22 Feb 2019 4:42 PM by Horus

Interesting thing I've noticed...

I hit enemies for about the same actual damage in Thid as I did in Caled as I do in 50 rvr.

Obviously HPs go up so the % dmg per shot drops dramatically. Seems like an odd mechanic that at 24 with 24 bow spec I hit another 24 for the same damage as I do at 50 vs 50 with 58 bow spec.

BTW as far as perf goes...you don't need to perf an archer...just attack unstyled if you like, using the mindless switching mechanic here for the spam of envenomed weapons and you will win unless there is a high RR difference. Once you get that 1st hit in perf or not due to detection range you've won the fight... And if by chance you mess up somehow, just vanish.

Fri 22 Feb 2019 4:59 PM by Tillbeast

Question mainly for scouts and rangers.

I am getting an aweful lot of misses. When I check log I find my miss chance is between 32.15% and 36.75%. I am a hybrid spec hunter 35 bow but that miss rate seems rather excessive. Are my fellow hunters getting the same percentage and how is it on the other side for scouts and rangers. Missing 1 shot in 3 when you have 35+14 in bow seems like something is broken. I have full template and 260 dex using a 5.0 player crafted bow. I even get those same percentages when shooting enemies who are yellow to me but not level 50 (think that's 47 to 49). Not shot at anything blue or less to find out if problem manifests vs enemies that low a level.

Fri 22 Feb 2019 5:54 PM by Bradekes

Tillbeast wrote: ↑
Fri 22 Feb 2019 4:59 PM
Question mainly for scouts and rangers.

I am getting an aweful lot of misses. When I check log I find my miss chance is between 32.15% and 36.75%. I am a hybrid spec hunter 35 bow but that miss rate seems rather excessive. Are my fellow hunters getting the same percentage and how is it on the other side for scouts and rangers. Missing 1 shot in 3 when you have 35+14 in bow seems like something is broken. I have full template and 260 dex using a 5.0 player crafted bow. I even get those same percentages when shooting enemies who are yellow to me but not level 50 (think that's 47 to 49). Not shot at anything blue or less to find out if problem manifests vs enemies that low a level.

Make sure you're using the best arrows with enhanced accuracy and using an enchanted bow

Fri 22 Feb 2019 6:31 PM by Tillbeast

I have fletching over 500 and use the best available. My bow is master crafted 5.0 bow with 95 dd proc on. Notsure I can get anything better for solo play bar the draught buffs.

Fri 22 Feb 2019 6:36 PM by Ashenspire

Did you enchant your bow?

Fri 22 Feb 2019 6:38 PM by Zansobar

Tillbeast wrote: ↑
Fri 22 Feb 2019 6:31 PM
I have fletching over 500 and use the best available. My bow is master crafted 5.0 bow with 95 dd proc on. Notsure I can get anything better for solo play bar the draught buffs.

Take your bow to an enchanter NPC merchant and get it enchanted with 35% bonus.

Fri 22 Feb 2019 11:19 PM by Jerrian

Assas always have been sniper killers in daoc, so getting ganked in melee by them was always kinda usual, except spear hunters that have been very equal at some patch level. That being said, it ´s very hard to do changes at snipers, if you give them too much damage they getting too OP , specially when they be in groups.

So maybe the only way to give them some love are special tweaks, like the hunter gets the better pet with that plague proc, more specc points to rangers and scouts so they can become better in melee, hard to say.
But stealthers have already a huge advantage with their stealth ability to be able to chose most of their fights on their own, so any changes should be considered very carefully. Pretty sure we don ´t want to have a sniper/stealther glut on this server.

Sat 23 Feb 2019 1:44 AM by Fooj Fujiyama

Anybody know how bow really works here? I have 50 + 14 bow, aug dex 9. I hit a pretty tuff SB for 350 normal shot, next normal shot hits for 500+? What is with the damage variance? Can anybody explain why I would get such crazy damage variance?

Sat 23 Feb 2019 1:59 AM by keen

Fooj Fujiyama wrote: ↑
Sat 23 Feb 2019 1:44 AM
Anybody know how bow really works here? I have 50 + 14 bow, aug dex 9. I hit a pretty tuff SB for 350 normal shot, next normal shot hits for 500+? What is with the damage variance? Can anybody explain why I would get such crazy damage variance?

It's called 150mhb and/or his af buff wore out.
Anyone can tell me why archers complain about archery DMG if they hit SBs 500+ with a normal shot?

Sat 23 Feb 2019 2:43 AM by Cadebrennus

keen wrote: ↑
Sat 23 Feb 2019 1:59 AM
Fooj Fujiyama wrote: ↑
Sat 23 Feb 2019 1:44 AM
Anybody know how bow really works here? I have 50 + 14 bow, aug dex 9. I hit a pretty tuff SB for 350 normal shot, next normal shot hits for 500+? What is with the damage variance? Can anybody explain why I would get such crazy damage variance?
It's called 150mhb and/or his af buff wore out.
Anyone can tell me why archers complain about archery DMG if they hit SBs 500+ with a normal shot?

Shots like that didn't happen in beta when everyone had test suits with capped everything. Here on the live version of Phoenix people are running around in untemped suits so bigger hits are very likely for the time being.

Sat 23 Feb 2019 8:39 AM by Fooj Fujiyama

Lol well you can see and hit me from 10 feet away so I don't feel to bad if you got caught attacking someone and have to take my 500 dmg shots

Sat 23 Feb 2019 1:41 PM by Akopra

Well, everybody see archers are a low class on Phoenix, but some changes like the patch of yesterday with the new tasks make one of the strong points of archers so more rare : keeps battle, so a new archer nerf, i know it was not the goal but it's a fact

So i really think we have to understand, archers will everytime be the last class in consideration for decisions, but to be honest me i did this class because i like to be a weak class for the challenge, so no problem :p

Ako

Sat 23 Feb 2019 11:56 PM by Expfighter

Akopra wrote: ↑
Sat 23 Feb 2019 1:41 PM
Well, everybody see archers are a low class on Phoenix, but some changes like the patch of yesterday with the new tasks make one of the strong points of archers so more rare : keeps battle, so a new archer nerf, i know it was not the goal but it's a fact

So i really think we have to understand, archers will everytime be the last class in consideration for decisions, but to be honest me i did this class because i like to be a weak class for the challenge, so no problem :p

Ako

you want a challenge, go to alb and play a scout, you will go running back to your BS hunter so quick it isn't funny!

here's what archers need to compete or even have a chance here:

1. do away with the Bullsh*& stealth advantage of the assassins, from the begining of DAoC archers had the camouflage ability to keep assassins from seeing us so easily! once you used it BAM 20 minutes timer on it! reinstate that and remove the stealth advantage of every assassin, assassins are to op anyway.

2. increase the bow damage by 25%, when i am maxed out bow spec, 100% lvl 51 5.5 spd bow with FE4 and the best arrows and only doing 160 damage on casters with a normal shot, something serious is going on.

3. Crit shot should ALWAYS penetrate blade turn, 2nd shot should pop the bubble! reinstate penetrate bladeturn.

those are my opinions, flame away

Sun 24 Feb 2019 9:14 AM by Akopra

Expfighter wrote: ↑
Sat 23 Feb 2019 11:56 PM
you want a challenge, go to alb and play a scout, you will go running back to your BS hunter so quick it isn't funny!

Definitely not agree with you, i think all archers are weak on Phoenix, not more scout, ok i think they have to loose against hunters because they are bad against class with pets yes (the mechanic of slam into critical shot is so harder against 2 targets for example, same for engage), but i think they are better against others stealthers like rangers or assassins (ok not enough to beat correct assassins, but not more for ranger and hunter, ok maybe ranger never meet the overpowered assassin class : NS, so maybe a little advantage, but that's all, i don't really see the difference between the 3 archers class, just some little advantages and desavantadges for the 3, and different playstyles), don't hesitate to ask Headshot or Skairipa how they play, i find they have the most interesting gameplay as scout, even it's hard when they meet correct hunters for sure, but DAoC is not just an 1v1 game, ok assassins are so better than archers for that, it's their only playstyle, but we have other advantages like sieges (when there are for sure, not like with this new task system with 95% open field fights ^^)

After for me, more than a archers up, it should more be an assassin nerf but i agree like i told in other topics, it's sad there is no point to go more than 35 bow, and i don't see reasons why assassins see us farer than us when they have to beat us when they find us... and if it's not the case, vanish..., it's a non sense for sure

But anyway i wish good luck to all archers, because i do a RvR break with this new task system, i don't like it at all simply, it's not more DAoC for me, have fun

Ako

Sun 24 Feb 2019 9:33 AM by Truen

Akopra wrote: ↑
Sun 24 Feb 2019 9:14 AM
Expfighter wrote: ↑
Sat 23 Feb 2019 11:56 PM
you want a challenge, go to alb and play a scout, you will go running back to your BS hunter so quick it isn't funny!

But anyway i wish good luck to all archers, because i do a RvR break with this new task system, i don't like it at all simply, it's not more DAoC for me, have fun

Ako

Agreed. It's made actual keep battles very rare since it's debut. I love keep siege/defense battles too...if these tasks were more event orientated and rare vs. hourly I think it would be much better imo.

Sun 24 Feb 2019 9:35 AM by Ganil

To be fair I like this system better. It's more open.

Sun 24 Feb 2019 9:57 AM by Truen

Good ole original RvR was good enough imo. The system isn't bad, it's just taken keep battles out of RvR and replaced it was zerging one realm at a time hourly...not sure if that's open or not.

Sun 24 Feb 2019 10:12 AM by Ganil

zerg vs zerg open battles a fun to me at least :p

Sun 24 Feb 2019 12:09 PM by yasow

As stated in the other thread, archers are on the watchlist, but we have a higher priority topic with the tasks at the moment.