Bladmaster wrong growth rates.

Started 28 Aug 2018

by Dathorn

in Resolved Issues

We tested many styles today, and there were some very wrong issues with the damage. Snow Shower Rear Snare style has a growth rate of 0.65, The follow up style is Thunderstorm. Thunderstorm should have a growth rate of 0.88. Snow Shower hit main hand for 157 for 30 swings. Thungerstormg only hit for 136 main hand. I do not know that the growth rate is right for snow shower, but i do know there is now way thunderstorm should hit for less than snow shower.

All tests done with 40 nurture druid capped bases and yellow spec buffs with 17% haste.

Snow Shower 0.65 growth rate - 157 main hand
Thunderstorm 0.88 growth rate - 136 main hand

Also the side chain is wrong. Ice Storm > Tempest > Supernova.

Icestorm 0.77 Growth rate - 157 Main hand.
Tempest 0.98 growth rate - 183 main hand
Supernova 1.28 Growth rate - 184mand hand.

Here you can see snow shower and icestorm a .65GR and a .77GR style have the same dmg. And you can see that .98GR style has the same damage as 1.28GR style. I cant say which values are wrong. But these numbers do not line up. Supernova and thunderstorm are too low, and there is a problem with either snow shower or ice storm.

http://talsyra.tripod.com/daocmechanics/hibernia_styles.html

Issue Timeline

28 Aug 2018 Dathorn created this issue

29 Aug 2018 Arctic triaged this issue

30 Aug 2018 Vivien triaged this issue

31 Aug 2018 Vivien triaged this issue

31 Aug 2018 Arctic triaged this issue

1 Sep 2018 Maxim triaged this issue

1 Sep 2018 Arctic triaged this issue

2 Sep 2018 Vivien triaged this issue

4 Sep 2018 Maxim triaged this issue

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7 Sep 2018 Yuki triaged this issue

7 Sep 2018 Uthred triaged this issue

7 Sep 2018 Uthred changed the status of this issue from new to open

16 Sep 2018 gruenesschaf assigned this issue from Nobody to gruenesschaf

16 Sep 2018 gruenesschaf changed the status of this issue from in_progress to resolved

Wed 29 Aug 2018 9:23 AM by Gwendolein

Hey Dathron,

same goes for the Merc -> the answer from the team was, that they do not use growth rate but another formular.
In my understanding the damage of low level styles is much higher as it should be.

--

Melee damage uses this formulas: https://camelotherald.wikia.com/wiki/Melee_Damage

STYLE_DAMAGE = (STYLE_BASE + (SPEC - STYLE_LEVEL) * STYLE_GROWTH)
* SWING_SPEED
* DAMAGE_MODIFIER / 10
+ BASE_DAMAGE * TOA_STYLE_BONUS

https://camelotherald.wikia.com/wiki/Dual_Wield
Flank: STYLE_BASE 90, STYLE_GROWTH 2
Shadow’s Rain: STYLE_BASE 130, STYLE_GROWTH 3
Dual Shadows: STYLE_BASE 170, STYLE_GROWTH 3

---

The issue is based on the following factor in the formula:
STYLE_DAMAGE = (STYLE_BASE + (SPEC - STYLE_LEVEL) * STYLE_GROWTH)

meaning if the style level is low but the spec is quite high e.g. 50 + 16 and youe use a lvl 6 style- the damage boost is great.

It can be demonstrated with the following example:
Style Level 8: Inflame Style Base Damage 16, Style Growth 2 ---> Damage 196
vs
Style Level: 29 Amethyst Slash Style Base 75, Style Grwoth 2 ----> Damage 204

This only 4 % different between one of the highest hitting anytimer in the game and a weak lvl 8 taunt.
If Amethyst Slash would be lvl 50 style instead of a lvl 29 the damge would be only 183 and therfore lower as the Inflame damage.

I build a spredsheet with all formulas provided for meele damage and calculated it with some style. It feels just wrong since higher level styles are just weaker as they should be and low level styles like the BM backsnare are way to stong.

I am happy to provide the spreadsheet to the team to test it. But I would higly recommed to use grwoth rates otherwise the meele damage feels broken.

I will post the same under the merc report

Wed 29 Aug 2018 9:43 AM by Gwendolein

Additional Comment - I tested the results from the spreadsheet with my Merc as well. The Damage numbers are not the same (i guess because I used 25 in my spreadsheet for the the random (50) command to have a fix value - but it comes very near to the real damage numbers + the % difference between the styles are identical between the server test results and my calculations.

Therfore the formulars under meele damage seems to be implemented in the game as stated on the link. But as I said, it just feels wrong and overpowers low level styles. On top of it, it is actually influnances the spec of a merc. It was always known to skill only 52 combined spec in weapon and after this the damge will not increase anymore. But if you now spec 50 weapon, due to the formular stated in the last comment the damage will increase. Damage with 39 + 14 and Amethyst Slash (29) = 204, Damage with 50 + 14 and Amethyst Slash (29) = 217 ->>> 5,6% more damage per swing. One additional releam rank would lead to roughly 0,5% damage increase. The funny think is, that as lower the style is that you are using, as more the style damage benefits from higher specs... again due to the following part of the formula: STYLE_DAMAGE = (STYLE_BASE + (SPEC - STYLE_LEVEL) * STYLE_GROWTH)

Thu 30 Aug 2018 2:30 AM by Dathorn

Hmmm, That is interesting. It is ok if they use a different system. However i would maintain that even for a different system the value of these styles is off. So i would just spam my rear snare because to use the follow up style would make me lose a lot of damage. Why would my follow up and third largest damage style do the lowest damage of all my styles? And even with a different system my final and highest damage style Supernova should not be doing the same damage.

According to the source provided the growth of the styles is. Ice Storm 3, Tempest 4, Supernova is 5. Assuming the final modifer is the style growth, there should be a marked increase from icestorm > tempest > supernova. 3 >4 >5. There is an increase from ice storm to tempest, but no increase from tempest to supernova.

Using these values seems to make sense as to why thunderstorm does no damage, because it is now an anytime style with detaunt. and has a growth of 1. Because using these values the entire spec line has been reworked. So it has very different functionality. That means these values with the old style chains makes BM loses dps on arguably his most important style chain. The rear chain. I say arguably most important as it is much easier and common to get rear styles rather than side. The rework of the chain fixes this damage loss issue, and hurricane becomes your rear style and supernova becomes the follow up style.

So your main damage is rear style into follow up. If this charts values are to be used then it needs to be reworked to be functional. In both the old styles and the new styles. It is Rear opening style medium damage into rear follow up style large damage. When you mix it becomes rear style medium damage into nothing.

Old style is Medium damage > high damage > Medium Damage > High Damage.
New style is Medium damage > high damage > Medium Damage > High Damage.
Old chains mixed with new values is Medium damage > Medium damage >Medium damage > Medium damage.

So blademaster loses functional damage.

And aside from the rear style chain functionality, Supernova is still doing the same damage as tempest. A 4 growth and 5 growth style shouldnt be the same.

Here is the equivalent page provided below for Celtic Dual instead of Dual wield.

http://camelotherald.wikia.com/wiki/Celtic_Dual

Thu 30 Aug 2018 7:19 AM by

gruenesschaf

quote: It was always known to skill only 52 combined spec in weapon and after this the damge will not increase anymore.
That’s only the case for base damage against level 50 opponents but it has always been the case that higher spec increases style damage, that’s why you spec comb 52 weapon spec and 50 actual spec into the advanced spec (like cd, pole, whatever) / the line you use the styles from.

Thu 30 Aug 2018 12:14 PM by Gwendolein

Thanks Grünesschaf... But the rest is still strange

I summerized it in the forum.
https://playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=1970

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