Realm Timer - Ingame Player Vote

A very long time ago when we started working on Phoenix, the founder team made some basic decisions on different topics. One of this was the real timer. Even at that point, where Phoenix was nothing but an idea in our minds and an empty world without any NPCs on it, the realm timer was discussed very lively and in the end we decided to go with the 12h timer.

Now, about 2 years after these first decisions were made the discussion about the timer among the players is still one of the most heated. It was often very rude as people seem to like insulting players more than bringing up reasonable arguments, but we were always trying to listen to those few players that were discussing with reasonable arguments and not with insults, flames, etc.

Even if we were closing nearly every new thread since the our last statement some month ago, it didnt mean that we were not reading or that we didnt notice if there was a reasonable argument. That being said we decided to be more open to a reduction (not a remove) of the realm timer and let the players decide via a voting. But let me explain to you our thoughts on the realm timer in general first.

We are aware of the fact that today with all the different options to communicate, it is very unlikely that a (relic)raid will happen without getting revealed before it started. That is nothing what any realm timer could ever prevent.

The primary reason for the realm timer is that we don't want a snowball effect to occur on a given evening or people changing realms while a certain bg leader is online and switching back only afterwards. While a shorter realm timer would make the opposite possible as well, people switching over to the less populated realm, the majority of people will not, instead they are more likely to switch to the dominating realm of the evening.

Another reason for having a realm timer is that players cant switch realms instantly to insult or grief others. Example: Player A is leveling somewhere in the FZ - he gets into a fight with player B from the same realm about a levelspot. Player B logs out and into another realm, goes to the spot and kills player A - this is just a simple example for 2 players, it could also involve groups.

We would also like to make a comment on the myth about „the millions of people“ which got perma banned for circumventing the realm timer. It is just a very low number. The fact is most of the bans are for people having multi accs and/or dual logging. It is also not true that you will get an instant perma ban for circumventing the realm switch timer. Yes, there is the possibility to get a perma ban for circumventing it, but only if you do it multiple times:
"Crossrealming is not allowed and trying to circumvent the 12h realm timer will lead to a punishment of the player.

1st offense: 3-day ban
2nd offense: 7-day ban
3rd offense: Permaban of Player"

Anyways, no matter what the result of the voting will be, we will not unban anyone. Also there will be no further changes on the realm timer after the voting is done. Please dont open any new threads on the timer anymore.

The voting will start after the next reboot and will end on October 16th. You need to log in to the game and you need to have a level 50 toon on your account which is at least realm rank 3. You only have one vote per account.

The voting options are:
A) 4 hours
B) 6 hours
C) 8 hours
D) 12 hours
E) 24 hours

Wed 2 Oct 2019 3:27 PM by florin

24h sounds just about right

Wed 2 Oct 2019 3:30 PM by bysfall

4 hours nothing else

Wed 2 Oct 2019 3:31 PM by Rdw

1 hour so I can play euro prime and na prime in different realms.

Wed 2 Oct 2019 3:32 PM by Taniquetil

Nice as always. Would you consider rewarding realm loyalty too, as a way of "allowing" easy switching of realms, but encouraging people to consider swapping more carefully than just flipping back and forth? Putting the choice in each persons hands.

On the one hand a switch after 4-24hrs is possible, but on the other hand a reward for realm loyalty is also appealing and potentially a reason to stick to/commit to a realm more consistently?

Wed 2 Oct 2019 3:33 PM by Landliebe

F) 1 Week

Wed 2 Oct 2019 3:34 PM by Ownnyn

Guess 4 hr is better than 12. Though i dont think youll silence the vocal proponents of shorter timers for very long. Id expect the first forum thread asking for shorter timers again within 24 hrs of the change.

Wed 2 Oct 2019 3:36 PM by bysfall

On live server, we could switch as we wanted, and yet people were loyal to their realm, why want to change it in fact and put a pseudo system of loyalty? @Taniquetil

Wed 2 Oct 2019 3:38 PM by bysfall

With discord if peoples really want to spy, timer or not they can spy so easily … so the timer are useless in fact

Wed 2 Oct 2019 3:41 PM by FUINY7

4h still too much, would have been useful when peoples re-rolled, but now you need more 30 min timer, for peoples playing EU and NA time in diff realm.

Wed 2 Oct 2019 3:43 PM by Raunz

I'm sorry but there is very little difference in 12h or 4h it won't fix anything. Also the reasons for having timer make me cringe 😂

Wed 2 Oct 2019 3:51 PM by Ashenspire

Of all the options, A) is the best.

That being said, a 1 hour timer is more than enough to prevent crossrealming of any kind of importance.

As it stands, there's enough cross realm transfer of information happening in real time through services like Twitch, the community discord, and other channels.

Realm pride should be second fiddle compared to health and happiness of the server. Logging in to level something Albion while you kill some time waiting for your friends from Midgar to log in should be an option.

Wed 2 Oct 2019 3:54 PM by Niix

Lol LOL

0 mins or ded dumb server

Wed 2 Oct 2019 3:56 PM by Shamissa

Compared to 12 , 4hrs is great. Thanks Phoenix team. Give people to do RL stuff, sleep, groceries, etc. BTW Uth said in game vote. This is just my opinion as people complaining already.

Wed 2 Oct 2019 4:03 PM by Zouz

12 hours and 4 hours are the exact same thing.

Doesn't allow to balance realm mid-evening or fill more groups with people stuck on their timer.

Easy fixes :

To balance the number of groups already out : Allow people that have been on /gvg list for 30 minutes to instantly switch realm via a custom command by the group leader (/gvg switch group <realm>

.

To allow for groups to fill : Create new command /gvg switch invite <account name>, that allows a group leader to send an invite to a player logged on another realm. On acceptation by the player, he is logged off and his timer resets on the realm on which he was invited.

Wed 2 Oct 2019 4:05 PM by elninost0rm

Probably voting 4 since it's the shortest option. All about preventing fairweather realm hopping, but 4 hours is more than enough to accomplish that.

Wed 2 Oct 2019 4:08 PM by Patchnotes

B) 6

this is just under a full days work and is only a 1/4 of a day lock that isn't bad at all. You can find 6 hours worth of stuff to do around the house before coming back.

Wed 2 Oct 2019 4:14 PM by Zouz

Could you please add a "less than that" option just for the sake of it? Even if you won't go forward with it for whatever reasons.

While a shorter realm timer would make the opposite possible as well, people switching over to the less populated realm, the majority of people will not, instead they are more likely to switch to the dominating realm of the evening.

On what data are you basing your argument? Most people don't like to do PVE vs keeps guards, I'd say the complete opposite would happen, especially with the bonus xp/rp for underpopulated realm.

Wed 2 Oct 2019 4:30 PM by Sethbroquard

4 hours

Wed 2 Oct 2019 4:32 PM by Cerealz1

4hr or 6hr it seems reasonable, and a good option to play different realm .
Don't need to have less than 3hr on server like this

Wed 2 Oct 2019 4:35 PM by shewtz

I like the previously mentioned idea of a "loyalty" reward. For instance, an added RP or XP bonus that grows the longer you stay on a single realm (up to a certain maximum). Then, when you switch realms, the bonus is reset. That way, players have more incentive to stick to one realm. This would make a 4 hour (or less) timer have a reduced negative impact (as the Phoenix team perceives it to be) since players would be less inclined to partake in cross-realm trolling, etc, since it would mean losing/resetting their RP/XP bonus. Granted, I realize the timer is for more than just preventing trolling. But hopefully this feedback can provide something to build from to get something that works for the players, the Phoenix team, and the community at large.

Wed 2 Oct 2019 4:37 PM by adlam

Could the timer be partially based on realm pop? That could eliminate the snowball effect mentioned, while providing increased flexibility for most.

If you want to relog from overpop to underpop, have like 15 minutes. Same for underpop to underpop. But maybe an hour (or 4...) for underpop to overpop. Encourage people to balance populations by relogging to underpop realms. Timer could be set when you log out.

Wed 2 Oct 2019 4:38 PM by Iuppiter

First, I commend the devs for taking a swing at this issue after taking a hard stance in the past.

An option to accomplish all goals would be to allow realm switches based on populations in frontier zones, where switches from overpopulated -> underpopulated are given no/reduced switch timer if there is a certain delta between the population numbers, but switches from underpop/same population realms to same/higher population realms abide by the currently in-place realm timer. This solves the "bandwagoner" fear, but allows players from higher population realms to even out action a little better. Additionally, if that seems too lax, the no/reduced timer could only come into effect once overall fz population falls below some threshold (low enough population where without instant swaps there is little chance for even action). This gives the devs 2 levers to control the no/reduced timer : delta between realm populations and overall fz population.

Ex (fz populations) :
A: 50 M: 100 H: 25 - 0 timer M -> A/H, A -> H; regular timer A -> M, H -> A/M
a Mid could switch to Alb/Hib, but once there would not be able to switch back to Mid until the end of the timer.

A: 100 M: 100 H: 100 - Regular timer rules for all

Wed 2 Oct 2019 4:39 PM by Kurbsen

please consider a 1 hour timer for the vote. A 4 hour timer will not fix NA time. That is still to long to be able to create better action at night.

Wed 2 Oct 2019 4:40 PM by gameandsave

How about no timer???

Wed 2 Oct 2019 4:42 PM by Keelia

4 hours doesn’t fix the issue with NA time. Needs to be way less so we can balance the realms out.

Wed 2 Oct 2019 4:53 PM by age0208

2-4 Hours works.

Can play both prime times if planned. Can be on 1 realm xping if you have a day off, and be back on another realm to join your guild/friends in the evening.

If you make the timer to short it will result in planned super groups running around each realm with nothing to fight because nobody will make the effort and attempt to put together a pug to face said groups. Thats what will happen. Sad but fact.

Wed 2 Oct 2019 5:06 PM by Fayte

What Luppiter said by realm pop - low/no timer to help prime time balance

4 hours - helps smallman/solo get some variety during the day
6 hours - I'm probably not coming back the same day if I wanted to realm swap
8 hours - Not coming back the same day
12 hours - Not coming back the same day
24 hours - Monday play - Tuesday locked - Wednesday play for 2 hours (think fuck this realm) - Thursday locked - Never play again

Wed 2 Oct 2019 5:26 PM by vxr

I really don't care one way or the other. I log in and if I am prompted with realm selection screen I always hit Mid.

What I care about is the longevity of the server. Most players seem to want a lower time and therefore more people will be happy with that so I vote a).
I get the point of the timer. I think ultimately a 1-2 hour timer would be best, but 4 is much better than 12. The people saying 4 and 12 are the same are wrong. I do agree that 4 is still a little longer than it needs to be, but it is a decent compromise.

Thank you for putting this to a vote.

Wed 2 Oct 2019 5:35 PM by Rdw

FZ pop based timer

Wed 2 Oct 2019 5:43 PM by Freedomcall

I think rather switching realm should be recommended than rewarding "loyalty".
I have already seen so many ppl who have no idea about other realms cuz they have never played before. They just cry over things that they would havent if they played it themselves.

But no realm timer is just a stupid idea, allowing all the grief players free ticket.
You guys all know there are ppl who enjoys trolling, and 1 stupid player out of 100 can make a mess.
Rules should be set to prevent those "bad" players and you guys should remind that everyone is not like you.

Wed 2 Oct 2019 5:56 PM by Shohdef

I'm voting for 4 hours. However, I feel that the timer should be shorter. Possibly even an hour.

On live, as I recall, there wasn't a realm timer. I feel like a 12 hour realm timer creates a possible aversion to trying out other realms. I currently play Hib right now, not because it's my favorite realm, but because I have people I enjoy talking to here on the green side. I often use Discord to my advantage to see if people are online, but Discord activity does not often reflect in-game activity. DAoC's overall playerbase is on average older than me (by at least a good decade) and most players learned about TS or Vent, but not Discord. Others straight up might look at Discord with great confusion and stray away.

So often times, if I log on and see friends, I'll probably stick around. Sometimes, I've wanted to swap to another realm to meet more friends and see what the populations of the other realms are like. But thanks to the timer, I'm locked out of experiencing this because if I log onto Alb, I'll get locked away from Hib. My friends might come on in a few hours, but I would be stick on Alb or Mid. I'm already a pretty hardcore Hib loyalist, but I don't like having options taken from me if I play once a day.

It's worth noting that spies will spy and a realm timer does nothing to circumvent it. There could be full time spies from enemy factions playing your realm all the time and you might not know it. They would just use Discord to get their message out to their guildies/realm. Second party chat services are the issue that Phoenix cannot hope to moderate, outside of the official Discord server. Anything goes and the realm timer won't tackle this issue.

Thanks for opening this discussion.

Wed 2 Oct 2019 6:10 PM by JaggedOne

I commend the devs for finally displaying some flexibility on this issue. However, 4 hours won’t fix the issue with NA time, and is still too much. Please add 1 and/or 2 hours to the vote. Or better yet, why not just change it to 1 or 2 hrs w/o a vote and see what happens and what the feedback is over the next month ?

I think there have been a lot of good comments in this thread and many arguments for a 1-2 hr timer, and I salute my fellow players for holding this discussion w/o trolling or other nastiness.

Looking forward to a reasonable timer (1-2 hours) in the near future !!!

Wed 2 Oct 2019 6:25 PM by egilll

4 hours

Wed 2 Oct 2019 6:53 PM by beatrix

Cerealz1 wrote: ↑
Wed 2 Oct 2019 4:32 PM
4hr or 6hr it seems reasonable, and a good option to play different realm .
Don't need to have less than 3hr on server like this

Uhhhh wut? Do you not see how the population has dramatically declined? Do you not see how certain realms every day are more populated than others? Do you not see how NA time is horrible? Of course there should be a timer less than 4 hours...

And what is with people talking about realm loyalty? That is soooo 2003. People are here for RvR. Many people play all 3 realms so talking about realm loyalty is so dumb to even mention.

I agree with most, please just make it a 1 hour timer. It's enough time to prevent cross-realm shit (even though it's still going to happen no matter what the timer is) and enough time to prevent people from switching to another realm right away to talk shit to people.

Wed 2 Oct 2019 7:07 PM by Buv

4 hours is too long. Being handicapped to sitting on the same realm as every other 8man on certain nights with nothing to fight is horrible. Remove the timer and allow the 8mans to switch realms as needed to fight other groups that are out. Removing the timer will balance the groups that are out to fight.

Wed 2 Oct 2019 7:20 PM by Prometheus

I don't personally play any other realms but my thought is if one realm is dominating, other players may try to balance things out by playing a different realm if the realm timer is short enough.

Wed 2 Oct 2019 7:32 PM by Forlornhope

Prometheus wrote: ↑
Wed 2 Oct 2019 7:20 PM
I don't personally play any other realms but my thought is if one realm is dominating, other players may try to balance things out by playing a different realm if the realm timer is short enough.

Or they'll hop to the dominating realm to reap the rewards of free rps, which I think is probably more likely.

Wed 2 Oct 2019 8:12 PM by Pigleto

I think it should be a variable realm timer. If there are 50 albs 50 mids and 50 hibs, then timer stays at 4 hours. If there are 100 mids, 50 hibs, and 25 albs, it should be 4 hours to change to mid but 2 hours to change to hib and 1 hour to change to alb. This would be a better solution. What about a realm respec stone? Buy a stone for plat or feathers which would allow you to switch instantly. You guys always talk about how the economy is over inflated and how there is too much money. Make it cost 3 to 5p to change realms and you will take some of the money out and keep the realm hoppers from going over to the other side.

Wed 2 Oct 2019 8:15 PM by Killaloth

I would also have voted for a 1hr option if it was there. Or we coild give it a try for a while since it's quick to change things.

From the replies so far it seems that a shorter timer would make ppl happy and still address the issues raised in the 1st post of this thread.

If anyone can point out what is not ok with 1hr VS 4hrs plz do so in a civilized way, I would have expected something shorter to address the 8man balancing issues but perhaps I'm missing something?

Wed 2 Oct 2019 8:30 PM by The Skies Asunder

While I am really glad to see the Devs making the effort to adjust the timer, I still feel that 4 hours is much too long. NA times, especially West coast, are dreadful. There is no such thing as realm pride at this point in the games life cycle. I doubt too much griefing would result in a small timer in the way described. I would vote for no timer at all if it were up to me, but I would be fine with a small 30 minutes - 1 hour option. I would like the option to level my Mids/Albs while I wait for friends to show up, then be allowed to switch over the Hib for some RvR action, or level other realms after friends log off for the night. Shame it will still be 4 hours at a minimum, which is clearly too long to change anything during prime times, and doesn't do much to help most people wanting a shorter one. I personally loved switching instantly to the lower pop realm on Live to find more fights.

Wed 2 Oct 2019 8:38 PM by Toadster

Is there any chance of adding an option that is less than 4 hours? Even if the consensus lands elsewhere, I still think it'd be valuable to know what portion of the community would prefer something in the 30min - 2 hour range.

Wed 2 Oct 2019 9:09 PM by Vlas

Since you don't want to address this again how about you add 0 timer 1 hour timer and never allow

Wed 2 Oct 2019 9:19 PM by gotwqqd

What a bunch of millennials

Wed 2 Oct 2019 9:24 PM by gotwqqd

4Hours

WITH A QUEUE
Play realm A and get in queue for Realm B
After three hours you are autologged and in 1 hour you can only join Realm B
Once you join a queue you can’t back out

Wed 2 Oct 2019 9:54 PM by

gruenesschaf

Zouz wrote: ↑
Wed 2 Oct 2019 4:14 PM
Could you please add a "less than that" option just for the sake of it? Even if you won't go forward with it for whatever reasons.

While a shorter realm timer would make the opposite possible as well, people switching over to the less populated realm, the majority of people will not, instead they are more likely to switch to the dominating realm of the evening.

On what data are you basing your argument? Most people don't like to do PVE vs keeps guards, I'd say the complete opposite would happen, especially with the bonus xp/rp for underpopulated realm.

Ywain. Btw they now also added a timer.

Wed 2 Oct 2019 10:23 PM by eclipse2k

TBH 4 hours is still only very barely short enough to level a toon on Hib during the day and run RvR on Mid, for example, during the evening. Need a 1h option. Still makes it impossible to spy, but at least you can do random stuff on other realms until your mates are about to come on, have dinner, then switch realms. That would be optimal and I still don't quite understand what would be so bad about it.

Should be 1 hour imho.

Wed 2 Oct 2019 10:49 PM by Tephin

4 hours

Wed 2 Oct 2019 10:56 PM by Tiny

4 hours, best of the given alternatives although 2 would have been nice. Might actually level a Hib during off hours. And the spying this is just hysterical. The paranoia runs deep.

Wed 2 Oct 2019 11:25 PM by jsx

These dev's are starting to feel like Uthgard devs... They are so close minded.

30 MINUTE TIMER. There's no such thing as realm pride anymore. -- US players get screwed by the timer harder than anyone. We can't even play Saturday night if we plan to play Sunday morning. It's time to remove the timer all together. Allow people to make quick adjustments. The pugging will get better and better.

Wed 2 Oct 2019 11:46 PM by Hodge

How about 12h if you earn a rp, and 4h otherwise?

Thu 3 Oct 2019 12:06 AM by Ceseuron

Since there's no option for "Remove realm timer and require complete character wipe to play on a different realm", I'll be voting for 24 hours. I play Midgard and have zero interest in playing any other realm, nor do I intend to cross swords with my alliance or guild on the battlefield. If my entire guild and alliance wants to move to another realm or the whole thing comes crashing down, then I'll move. But until then, I'm staying loyal to Midgard.

I see a lot of people complaining about NA prime time, but there's an equal problem with EU prime time as well. Midgard population explodes during NA prime time, but the same thing happens in Hibernia and Albion during EU prime time. Just as EU players log into Hib/Alb and see their respective realms completely blue/green during Midgard prime time (depending on which realm is attacked), the same thing happens to Midgard during EU prime time, where the Midgard frontier map turns green and red during the EU prime time. As far as I can tell, the populations have largely coalesced into region specific realms, with Midgard favoring North America and Europe favoring Hibernia / Albion.

The only thing I see a reduction in the realm switch timer accomplishing is giving relic hoppers and people looking for free RPs a ticket to easy wins by letting them join whatever happens to be the highest populated realm at a given time. Contrary to some lofty claims of wanting to maintain "balance", if given the option, people will simply choose the path of least resistance. If the choices on the menu are:

1. Join Realm A and roll with a zerg twice the size of the current populations of the other realms for easy RPs and possible relic bonuses.
2. Join Realm B or C and get steamrolled by Realm A's zerg repeatedly with no hope of defending your realm or seeing your relics in the near future.

The choice is going to be #1, by a landslide margin. As I play in Midgard exclusively, I've actually had my share of both of these options several times throughout my experience on Phoenix. There have been times when I've not seen our relics in our temples for more than a week and our frontier has basically been trashed like a university frat house after a raging kegger. These are the times that make the "Dark" in "Dark Age of Camelot" that much more poignant. Then there are times where we visit the same circumstances upon Hibernia or Albion (sometimes both). Those are good times. If you guys in Hibernia and Albion think NA prime time is bad now when Midgard is rolling an zerg 80+ players deep, wait until the realm timer is reduced so low that it's trivial for some of your realm-mates to just switch to Midgard during NA prime time. If you think that any significant number of Midgard players are going to want to switch to Albion or Hibernia during NA prime time because "balance is so much more important and I'd rather get my ass handed to me repeatedly on a silver platter tonight", I think you're going to be sorely disappointed.

Thu 3 Oct 2019 12:08 AM by FingaPoppin

I don’t know if this is even possible, but maybe put a penalty timer for switching to much.

Something like the 1st switch be 2hrs, and have every switch after double in time until a 24hr reset.

Just an idea.

Thu 3 Oct 2019 12:13 AM by Katraz

4 hours sounds perfect

Thu 3 Oct 2019 1:12 AM by Forlornhope

Even having an hour or shorter timer really isn't going to fix the mentality of players. NA time, mid has had over double the population of alb/hib for weeks now. People have had plenty of time to wait 12 hours and log to a different realm and tip the balance. The vast majority of people want easy wins with little effort rp farming, so until the incentive to pvdoor keeps for 5 hours straight goes away, you're still going to have issues with people staying on the realm with the strongest bg to essentially afk and get tons of rps.

Thu 3 Oct 2019 3:34 AM by Breathaan

Zouz wrote: ↑
Wed 2 Oct 2019 4:03 PM
12 hours and 4 hours are the exact same thing.

Not true, 12h means I cannot wake up, do a lil crafting or whatnot on one realm for a half hour; get showered and head to work for 8 hours, got home and log in on a different realm for the first three hours-ish after work.

4 hours definitely allows me to let the realm timer reset while I'm at work, or sleeping for less then 12 hours. Which, incidentally, I often do. Sometimes, I even sleep for merely half that time.

tldr; 12 not = 4...4, 6, 8 hour options line up a lot more cleanly with resetting realm while sleeping overnight or during the workday.

Thu 3 Oct 2019 4:01 AM by Frows

4

Thu 3 Oct 2019 4:28 AM by Gorgoroth

D - 12h
Its fine the way it is.

Thu 3 Oct 2019 4:57 AM by Raunz

Zouz wrote: ↑
Wed 2 Oct 2019 4:14 PM
Could you please add a "less than that" option just for the sake of it? Even if you won't go forward with it for whatever reasons.

While a shorter realm timer would make the opposite possible as well, people switching over to the less populated realm, the majority of people will not, instead they are more likely to switch to the dominating realm of the evening.

On what data are you basing your argument? Most people don't like to do PVE vs keeps guards, I'd say the complete opposite would happen, especially with the bonus xp/rp for underpopulated realm.

Agreed groups would be able to form opposite realms and easier as well because people wouldn't be realm locked.

Thu 3 Oct 2019 5:01 AM by Raunz

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Wed 2 Oct 2019 9:54 PM
Zouz wrote: ↑
Wed 2 Oct 2019 4:14 PM
Could you please add a "less than that" option just for the sake of it? Even if you won't go forward with it for whatever reasons.

While a shorter realm timer would make the opposite possible as well, people switching over to the less populated realm, the majority of people will not, instead they are more likely to switch to the dominating realm of the evening.

On what data are you basing your argument? Most people don't like to do PVE vs keeps guards, I'd say the complete opposite would happen, especially with the bonus xp/rp for underpopulated realm.

Ywain. Btw they now also added a timer.

What is nr1 rule of running a daoc server?

Look what ywain did/does and do the opposite thing .

Live server is a complete joke first they tried to cater to masses and ruin the game in the process. Then they made this knight program with people stuck on Zerg leaders making suggestions what to change in the game. It's a complete joke if you ask me and I'm rarely wrong in daoc issues!

Thu 3 Oct 2019 5:12 AM by majky666

c) 8 hours

Thu 3 Oct 2019 6:30 AM by Nachtfee

i have no idea why this must by change ^^ and plz dont come with the argument my friends are playing XXX ... before i log in i speak to my friends with realm they want to play and then i log in

at the end we all know that the result will be 4 hour ^^

Thu 3 Oct 2019 8:57 AM by hisoka

A) 4 hours

Thu 3 Oct 2019 9:14 AM by Chaskha

Nachtfee wrote: ↑
Thu 3 Oct 2019 6:30 AM
i have no idea why this must by change ^^ and plz dont come with the argument my friends are playing XXX ... before i log in i speak to my friends with realm they want to play and then i log in

at the end we all know that the result will be 4 hour ^^

You signature suggest you play only Hibernia though.
The timer is annoying for people with a lot of time to play (eg: you play a few hours in the morning, then work for 6 to 8h and want to go play another realm, usually where your friends are, indeed).
So yes, 4h will allow that.

Thu 3 Oct 2019 9:32 AM by Nachtfee

Chaskha wrote: ↑
Thu 3 Oct 2019 9:14 AM
Nachtfee wrote: ↑
Thu 3 Oct 2019 6:30 AM
i have no idea why this must by change ^^ and plz dont come with the argument my friends are playing XXX ... before i log in i speak to my friends with realm they want to play and then i log in

at the end we all know that the result will be 4 hour ^^

You signature suggest you play only Hibernia though.
The timer is annoying for people with a lot of time to play (eg: you play a few hours in the morning, then work for 6 to 8h and want to go play another realm, usually where your friends are, indeed).
So yes, 4h will allow that.

No, I do not just play Hib, but Hib are my mainchars. I´ve also 50s on Mid and on Alb. At the moment I play Alb

Thu 3 Oct 2019 9:44 AM by zzoa

A) 4 hours

Thu 3 Oct 2019 9:47 AM by iamsaitam

I suggest having 2 different timer durations, one between Monday - Thursday and another from Friday - Sunday. During Friday - Sunday you can have a longer timer, since the population is larger and you don't want it to be shifting towards the stronger realm. But during week days from Monday to Thursday you want a shorter timer, since even a 4h timer will only allow you to set foot on 2 different realms, but not do anything significant. These suggestions are based on a population which is no longer in the teens and has other stuff to attend to.

On the other hand, I suggest that the devs share some statistics regarding the server population, f.ex:
* How long is the average session during weekdays and weekend?
* Which time frame do people usually login and logout during weekdays and weekend?
* What are the peak times during weekdays and weekend?

No matter the outcome, there will be people that won't agree with it. But also due to the fact that each of us only has a biased notion of the situation since there are no statistics being shared. I on one hand would be more comfortable with the outcome if I knew more about the metrics related to the matter.

Thu 3 Oct 2019 10:01 AM by

gruenesschaf

Raunz wrote: ↑
Thu 3 Oct 2019 5:01 AM
What is nr1 rule of running a daoc server?

Look what ywain did/does and do the opposite thing .

Live server is a complete joke first they tried to cater to masses and ruin the game in the process. Then they made this knight program with people stuck on Zerg leaders making suggestions what to change in the game. It's a complete joke if you ask me and I'm rarely wrong in daoc issues!

That is precisely what we did: Ywain had no realm timer, we decided to have one in large part precisely because of the negative effects that could be seen there, the snow balling / joining some raid leader was / is the main reason for many on the staff as well as the insulting / flaming that could even be seen in beta. Sure some may have mentioned realm pride or even "spying", but those are mainly just the strawman arguments for those that want the timer removal.

Thu 3 Oct 2019 11:17 AM by Epinefrina

A)4 hours

Thu 3 Oct 2019 11:34 AM by

Uthred

The voting is active now. It will end on October 16th.

Thu 3 Oct 2019 11:40 AM by borodino1812

I think this is an issue where it is almost impossible to find consensus. Some are arguing for 24 hour realm timer in-game. Some want it removed completely. Whatever the outcome, many people will be unhappy.

It is commendable that the devs are open-minded to change, but this issue will rumble on no matter what is decided. I hope we will avoid constant changes to the realm timer once a change is made.

Thu 3 Oct 2019 11:59 AM by Wakanidoo

Again the developers have not understood that cross-realming is damaging only in case of DIRECT intervention (ie change realm to help take/defend a relic) in an event that concerns the 3 kingdoms, mainly takes of relics.
There are many players who are not interested in these unwanted interventions, but interested in the game itself, and want to play the realm they want when they want.
To bring together these two conditions (to prevent unwanted interactions and to allow free play) is nevertheless extremely simple:
A player can connect IMMEDIATELY to the realm of his choice, except that he can only access Frontier/Darkness Falls (or any others common areas) after a certain TIMER if he was previously connected to another realm.
Currently your discussions only concern the duration of the Timer, but not its position in the game.
The Timer exists, just check its activity at the time of connection to allow or not the logging of a character in a prohibited area. Once the character is connected, simply forbid access to prohibited areas until the timer has elapsed.
At each logging, the game checks on which realm the player was previously logged in and reactivates the timer if necessary.

Is it so hard to implement ?

Thu 3 Oct 2019 2:33 PM by armath

4 hours

or even better 2 hours - enough to piss you off, but also not long enough to ruin your entire sparetime if you want to flex it between two realms.

4 Hours will more or less be the same as now, just chaotic and annoying. 2 hours, you can mess up, and still make it to primetime RvR on main realm.

Either go with whatever it is now, or 2 hour, anything inbetween is no real difference from 24. Most people only got 4-6 hours to play per day max.

Thu 3 Oct 2019 2:38 PM by armath

Or even better... What about trying to remove the timer for 1 week and see how it goes? I know for sure my group would be switching between levelling underdog realms, and go back to main toons during primetime etc...

Seriously - try it, see how it goes. Right now the US primetime is retarded. 6+ midgard 8-man groups roaming empty alb/hib lands., all us euro's playing into the US timezone, would LOVE to log another realm then, and party on.

Thu 3 Oct 2019 2:53 PM by Keelia

6+ mid groups? Maybe all as a zerg but there is rarely a mid 8 man looking for 8v8s

Thu 3 Oct 2019 4:35 PM by Roto23

I want more people to play, so which one will cause more people to come back...or...
I willing to sell my vote for 1 plat Mid

Thu 3 Oct 2019 5:34 PM by Chihuahua

It should be 1 hour'ish.

I will vote for 4 hours, but if the majority will vote for 4 hours, then probably most of them would want shorter timer then that. 4 hours is better then 12 for sure, but 1 hour would solve the problem why the reduction of timer is needed after all.

Thu 3 Oct 2019 7:36 PM by Azrael

If they would remove the timer I would join the mighty harder zerg at EU primetime and switch back to mid at NA to get all these nice free rps

Thu 3 Oct 2019 7:44 PM by Raunz

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Thu 3 Oct 2019 10:01 AM
Raunz wrote: ↑
Thu 3 Oct 2019 5:01 AM
What is nr1 rule of running a daoc server?

Look what ywain did/does and do the opposite thing .

Live server is a complete joke first they tried to cater to masses and ruin the game in the process. Then they made this knight program with people stuck on Zerg leaders making suggestions what to change in the game. It's a complete joke if you ask me and I'm rarely wrong in daoc issues!

That is precisely what we did: Ywain had no realm timer, we decided to have one in large part precisely because of the negative effects that could be seen there, the snow balling / joining some raid leader was / is the main reason for many on the staff as well as the insulting / flaming that could even be seen in beta. Sure some may have mentioned realm pride or even "spying", but those are mainly just the strawman arguments for those that want the timer removal.

Again why are you bringing the worst parts of the game as in ZERGING as a excuse to implemant some rule that just kills the server in the long run.

Common consensus in the 8vs8 community right now is that the server is dog for us to play, you literally made this server for the zergers as friendly as possible and are saying the reason for the timer is to prevent massive zergs LOL.

People have lost hope for this server as the staff don't even see what the issues are nor do they want us even on the server it feels like, the people that kept this game alive all these years.

Thu 3 Oct 2019 7:48 PM by Highjacked

A

Thu 3 Oct 2019 7:48 PM by Raunz

You need to bring in some real balance changes to make various setups possible and put in some GvG zone or PvP like it was in beta with no timer etc, also at this point realm rank wipe is in order as #tasklife #welfare #freerps just rekt the server within few months already.

Stop trying to figure out something that is already known, "it is known"

Best Regards
Raunz

Thu 3 Oct 2019 8:04 PM by Ferboten

Uthred wrote: ↑
Wed 2 Oct 2019 3:23 PM
The primary reason for the realm timer is that we don't want a snowball effect to occur on a given evening or people changing realms while a certain bg leader is online and switching back only afterwards. While a shorter realm timer would make the opposite possible as well, people switching over to the less populated realm, the majority of people will not, instead they are more likely to switch to the dominating realm of the evening.

What is this based off of? Or is it just an assumption? You were willing to do a NF test for a week before holding a vote to permanently switch to NF, why not try removing the timer or have a very short one (1 hr max) for a week and see what, if any effect it has on bandwagon realm hoppers?

Thu 3 Oct 2019 9:15 PM by

Uthred

Ferboten wrote: ↑
Thu 3 Oct 2019 8:04 PM
Uthred wrote: ↑
Wed 2 Oct 2019 3:23 PM
The primary reason for the realm timer is that we don't want a snowball effect to occur on a given evening or people changing realms while a certain bg leader is online and switching back only afterwards. While a shorter realm timer would make the opposite possible as well, people switching over to the less populated realm, the majority of people will not, instead they are more likely to switch to the dominating realm of the evening.

What is this based off of? Or is it just an assumption? You were willing to do a NF test for a week before holding a vote to permanently switch to NF, why not try removing the timer or have a very short one (1 hr max) for a week and see what, if any effect it has on bandwagon realm hoppers?

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Thu 3 Oct 2019 10:01 AM
That is precisely what we did: Ywain had no realm timer, we decided to have one in large part precisely because of the negative effects that could be seen there, the snow balling / joining some raid leader was / is the main reason for many on the staff as well as the insulting / flaming that could even be seen in beta. Sure some may have mentioned realm pride or even "spying", but those are mainly just the strawman arguments for those that want the timer removal.

Same effect was also visable on Uthgard 1.

Thu 3 Oct 2019 9:37 PM by Sagz

Forlornhope wrote: ↑
Wed 2 Oct 2019 7:32 PM
Prometheus wrote: ↑
Wed 2 Oct 2019 7:20 PM
I don't personally play any other realms but my thought is if one realm is dominating, other players may try to balance things out by playing a different realm if the realm timer is short enough.

Or they'll hop to the dominating realm to reap the rewards of free rps, which I think is probably more likely.

WTF are you talking about? the "rewards" of free RPs?? it is easier to cash in RPs when you are in the underdog realm.

Thu 3 Oct 2019 10:35 PM by Redeye

Not enough options in my opinion. I'd say 1 hour maximum, just to appease the zergers and realm pride people. The timer really isn't doing anything to help the server, or realm pride BS people are talking about... Most information can be gathered by discord.

I vote for 4 hours because it's the lowest option, but think there should be no timer, or 1 hour at the maximum.

Thu 3 Oct 2019 10:59 PM by gameandsave

No timer please and make it so you can't /who PoC or DF or other frontier exp spots (EV, Gorge, Uppland). This will help combat the snipers

Thu 3 Oct 2019 11:13 PM by sairam71

A) 4 hours or less...

yess all your points about people switching realms to flame, greif, avoid strong 8mans/zerg leaders are all valid. THe flame thing is not as much of an issue as you can flame people in discord if you so please. Greifing will result in bans... so let them do it. the hard one is switching realms to avoid vs strong 8 mans or hard to win rvr situations.

Thu 3 Oct 2019 11:35 PM by Forlornhope

Sagz wrote: ↑
Thu 3 Oct 2019 9:37 PM
Forlornhope wrote: ↑
Wed 2 Oct 2019 7:32 PM
Prometheus wrote: ↑
Wed 2 Oct 2019 7:20 PM
I don't personally play any other realms but my thought is if one realm is dominating, other players may try to balance things out by playing a different realm if the realm timer is short enough.

Or they'll hop to the dominating realm to reap the rewards of free rps, which I think is probably more likely.

WTF are you talking about? the "rewards" of free RPs?? it is easier to cash in RPs when you are in the underdog realm.

If you really think people on this server, who actively avoid any challenge more often than not is going to switch to the realms where the only choice is to fight 80+ people with 30, as seen on NA primetime then you're deluding yourself. I play on hib during this time and my guild's only choice is to basically camp places we think the zerg is going to go and pick off as many as we possibly can. The simple truth is there's really not much else going on at that time. And yeah we see some nights with really good rps if we're successful, but that is not the case most of the time. When we try to roam and avoid the zerg it leads to us running arund finding nothing for an hour so we end up back trying to defend towers against 80 people with an 8man. Even with the 12 hour timer we have now people could have already swapped realms to tip the balance and try to combat the mid zerg. The vast majority of people on this server do not have the time to devote to running a consistent skilled 8man, so they go for the fastest easiest rps in the game, which is zerging down keeps with no opposition. Even the huge zergs avoid most keeps if there's any sort of defense, so even with being able to switch consistently with a short realm timer, we're going to see the same issues as before but with the added bonus of people being able to swap to join the dominant force in mid primetime not the opposite.

Fri 4 Oct 2019 11:26 AM by Keelia

Forlornhope wrote: ↑
Thu 3 Oct 2019 11:35 PM
Sagz wrote: ↑
Thu 3 Oct 2019 9:37 PM
Forlornhope wrote: ↑
Wed 2 Oct 2019 7:32 PM
Or they'll hop to the dominating realm to reap the rewards of free rps, which I think is probably more likely.

WTF are you talking about? the "rewards" of free RPs?? it is easier to cash in RPs when you are in the underdog realm.

If you really think people on this server, who actively avoid any challenge more often than not is going to switch to the realms where the only choice is to fight 80+ people with 30, as seen on NA primetime then you're deluding yourself. I play on hib during this time and my guild's only choice is to basically camp places we think the zerg is going to go and pick off as many as we possibly can. The simple truth is there's really not much else going on at that time. And yeah we see some nights with really good rps if we're successful, but that is not the case most of the time. When we try to roam and avoid the zerg it leads to us running arund finding nothing for an hour so we end up back trying to defend towers against 80 people with an 8man. Even with the 12 hour timer we have now people could have already swapped realms to tip the balance and try to combat the mid zerg. The vast majority of people on this server do not have the time to devote to running a consistent skilled 8man, so they go for the fastest easiest rps in the game, which is zerging down keeps with no opposition. Even the huge zergs avoid most keeps if there's any sort of defense, so even with being able to switch consistently with a short realm timer, we're going to see the same issues as before but with the added bonus of people being able to swap to join the dominant force in mid primetime not the opposite.

Who’s your guild, we have had great runs every time we log on and we play NA time. Not sure wheee you are coming from, yes kids have a zerg but there has been a lot of 8 mans out from 8-12 est.

Fri 4 Oct 2019 1:46 PM by Hector

Is 4 hours better than 12? Yes.
Is herpes better than cancer? Yes.
Please make 2 hours an option so that groups can balance action in the same playing session.

Fri 4 Oct 2019 1:55 PM by Sleepwell

I voted for 4 hours, although i have gotten by fine with the 12 hour timer....

A few things that i've always thought would help prevent some of the issues ive had with changing realms.

1. If a relic keep is under attack, port those who log in after the attack has started OUT of the relic keep (if they just logged in). Many people were parking up to 4 characters in a relic keep and switching between them when their other character died, or when a relic attempt started (live). There should be a timer if someone goes linkdead during a defense/attack, but just logging into a relic keep for defense ... well that was some of the problem with the realm hoppers.

2. Griefing/swapping realms to taunt or poke at someone who you killed, or who killed you (in an rvr zone). I think that the GM's do a fine job of reducing this already. They do not take the crap that live takes. Rules are written, break them and you're probably gonna tote a ban. Break them repeatedly and its perma. People cannot buy their way into this server like they continue to do on live. If the realm timer permits more crossrealm griefing, then i feel like we will see a few more bans on those people who feel its necessary to ruffle their own feathers.

Fri 4 Oct 2019 2:06 PM by Forlornhope

Keelia wrote: ↑
Fri 4 Oct 2019 11:26 AM
Forlornhope wrote: ↑
Thu 3 Oct 2019 11:35 PM
Sagz wrote: ↑
Thu 3 Oct 2019 9:37 PM
WTF are you talking about? the "rewards" of free RPs?? it is easier to cash in RPs when you are in the underdog realm.

If you really think people on this server, who actively avoid any challenge more often than not is going to switch to the realms where the only choice is to fight 80+ people with 30, as seen on NA primetime then you're deluding yourself. I play on hib during this time and my guild's only choice is to basically camp places we think the zerg is going to go and pick off as many as we possibly can. The simple truth is there's really not much else going on at that time. And yeah we see some nights with really good rps if we're successful, but that is not the case most of the time. When we try to roam and avoid the zerg it leads to us running arund finding nothing for an hour so we end up back trying to defend towers against 80 people with an 8man. Even with the 12 hour timer we have now people could have already swapped realms to tip the balance and try to combat the mid zerg. The vast majority of people on this server do not have the time to devote to running a consistent skilled 8man, so they go for the fastest easiest rps in the game, which is zerging down keeps with no opposition. Even the huge zergs avoid most keeps if there's any sort of defense, so even with being able to switch consistently with a short realm timer, we're going to see the same issues as before but with the added bonus of people being able to swap to join the dominant force in mid primetime not the opposite.

Who’s your guild, we have had great runs every time we log on and we play NA time. Not sure wheee you are coming from, yes kids have a zerg but there has been a lot of 8 mans out from 8-12 est.

Risen, but don't get me wrong he have had some great runs as well if we can find it. But a lot of it has to do with the hours we play, I think most of my guild logs around the time a lot of other 8mans get on. So then we're stuck doing five man shit if it's a weekday, which means picking off small man or defending a keep from a zerg and doing hit and runs on'em.

Fri 4 Oct 2019 2:29 PM by Keelia

Yea 8 mans doesn’t really pick up till after 10

Fri 4 Oct 2019 3:09 PM by Corou

2-4 hours would be fine.

Fri 4 Oct 2019 3:44 PM by Keelia

1 hour is what it needs to be

Fri 4 Oct 2019 4:06 PM by Killaloth

Let's see if this work.

A) Problem with keeptakers: their playstyle is zerg surfing. A short timer can encourage bigger zergs as they make rps with towers and they are also the majority.

B) Problem with 8man: they like to 8vs8. Most of them have chars across at least 2 realms. Sometimes you find 3 grps on the same realm on /gvg and it sucks.

Solution:

Timer stays as it is for players in group A) while it's dropped to a very short timer for 8man in grp B)

How to separate the two groups?

The amount of /played time in frontier zones must be at least 50%? in a /gvg list. (too bad we don't also have a /smallman command). Include active soloers on groupable classes too? If they gained at least X rps/hour in the last played session etc. It can be refined but this is a first draft.

Not perfect but at least a good improvement for ppl that actually like to 8man during NA time. And we are not touching the keeptakers balance.

Everyone happy. Killaloth for president.

Please thumbs up below for this marvellous proposal.

Fri 4 Oct 2019 4:50 PM by jackatom74

I could support a shorter timer if you make rps a currency that must be spent in order to switch. I believe there needs to be some perk for serving a single realm.

Fri 4 Oct 2019 5:18 PM by Killaloth

jackatom74 wrote: ↑
Fri 4 Oct 2019 4:50 PM
I could support a shorter timer if you make rps a currency that must be spent in order to switch. I believe there needs to be some perk for serving a single realm.

Well we are spending the "make the server playable for everyone" currency here. So far we've done pretty well except for this timer issue.

I don't even know if my proposal is doable from a coding point of view and I kinda feel bad asking for it but it seems to be crucial for some ppl. It could make sense to give it a try as it should keep everyone happy.

Fri 4 Oct 2019 6:15 PM by varalica

4hours

Fri 4 Oct 2019 9:48 PM by Keelia

4 hours doesn’t change anything really. The whole point is so if we log in and there’s 4 hib groups we can wait a short time and switch to albs to balance out the action. 4 hours doesn’t allow this to happen

Fri 4 Oct 2019 10:22 PM by paqdizzle

Keelia wrote: ↑
Fri 4 Oct 2019 9:48 PM
4 hours doesn’t change anything really. The whole point is so if we log in and there’s 4 hib groups we can wait a short time and switch to albs to balance out the action. 4 hours doesn’t allow this to happen

The problem is nobody except a few would use this as balance. Most would just use it to farm keeps/towers with their alliance/guilds.
The abuse on this server for cheesy game mechanics is mindblowing.

Fri 4 Oct 2019 10:42 PM by Keelia

paqdizzle wrote: ↑
Fri 4 Oct 2019 10:22 PM
Keelia wrote: ↑
Fri 4 Oct 2019 9:48 PM
4 hours doesn’t change anything really. The whole point is so if we log in and there’s 4 hib groups we can wait a short time and switch to albs to balance out the action. 4 hours doesn’t allow this to happen

The problem is nobody except a few would use this as balance. Most would just use it to farm keeps/towers with their alliance/guilds.
The abuse on this server for cheesy game mechanics is mindblowing.

Something needs to be done about NA time. Some days we literally log because the only thing out is the 90+ mid Zerg. Sucks when all the groups end up on hib/alb. Would allow us to balance the real daoc out. Zergers gonna zerg no stopping that.

Sat 5 Oct 2019 2:27 AM by gotwqqd

Keelia wrote: ↑
Fri 4 Oct 2019 9:48 PM
4 hours doesn’t change anything really. The whole point is so if we log in and there’s 4 hib groups we can wait a short time and switch to albs to balance out the action. 4 hours doesn’t allow this to happen

Wow
Doesn’t change a thing.....

Sat 5 Oct 2019 8:06 AM by Saldinna

Keelia wrote: ↑
Fri 4 Oct 2019 10:42 PM
paqdizzle wrote: ↑
Fri 4 Oct 2019 10:22 PM
Keelia wrote: ↑
Fri 4 Oct 2019 9:48 PM
4 hours doesn’t change anything really. The whole point is so if we log in and there’s 4 hib groups we can wait a short time and switch to albs to balance out the action. 4 hours doesn’t allow this to happen

The problem is nobody except a few would use this as balance. Most would just use it to farm keeps/towers with their alliance/guilds.
The abuse on this server for cheesy game mechanics is mindblowing.

Something needs to be done about NA time. Some days we literally log because the only thing out is the 90+ mid Zerg. Sucks when all the groups end up on hib/alb. Would allow us to balance the real daoc out. Zergers gonna zerg no stopping that.

where do you see a mid zerg? I see weeks no more than 3 groups except one Pilzpaule and harder

Sat 5 Oct 2019 8:15 AM by JesseePendragon

In my opinion a timer is good to prevent joe blow from rage logging onto other realm to yell at Jane Do for killing his grey self.. Or for snooping the realms on who's doing what where... tho this is still very easy to do with a 12 hour timer as i'm sure the Game masters know. (with or without discord) I will vote for the 4 hour as it is the lower w8 timer. Personally I think it should be about an hour. That is long enough in between situations for them not to be relevant any more. Once live made it so we could go on whatever realm we wanted without a timer.. it just made the game so much more fun. For me it wasn't about not staying loyal to the realm I had been on for so many years.. it was about being able to try out the other race/classes more freely.. about taking a break for a night from the regular stuff I was doing .. I enjoy all three realms. They all offer fun classes and enjoyable environments. I wish I had the freedom to experience that more often again. Thx GM's and Developers for all you do.

Sat 5 Oct 2019 10:51 AM by Laviski

jackatom74 wrote: ↑
Fri 4 Oct 2019 4:50 PM
I could support a shorter timer if you make rps a currency that must be spent in order to switch. I believe there needs to be some perk for serving a single realm.

this is a good idea.
a lot are vocal for a short timer. if they want to switch within a 12 hour period have a 33% reduction in rp's or even 50%. Or possibly something simpler that they don't qualify for the rp tasks..

Sat 5 Oct 2019 1:18 PM by Forlornhope

Saldinna wrote: ↑
Sat 5 Oct 2019 8:06 AM
Keelia wrote: ↑
Fri 4 Oct 2019 10:42 PM
paqdizzle wrote: ↑
Fri 4 Oct 2019 10:22 PM
The problem is nobody except a few would use this as balance. Most would just use it to farm keeps/towers with their alliance/guilds.
The abuse on this server for cheesy game mechanics is mindblowing.

Something needs to be done about NA time. Some days we literally log because the only thing out is the 90+ mid Zerg. Sucks when all the groups end up on hib/alb. Would allow us to balance the real daoc out. Zergers gonna zerg no stopping that.

where do you see a mid zerg? I see weeks no more than 3 groups except one Pilzpaule and harder

NA time, not EU. There's generally an 80 man mid zerg running around against 40 combined albs/hibs. This is about six-ten hours before the EU zergs start.

Sat 5 Oct 2019 1:58 PM by Raunz

Even if they remove the timer now it's too little too late. Major changes need to happen to bring back people including no freaking timer okey.

Sat 5 Oct 2019 4:19 PM by [email protected]

4hours plz

Sat 5 Oct 2019 9:27 PM by Ceseuron

Keelia wrote: ↑
Fri 4 Oct 2019 10:42 PM
Something needs to be done about NA time. Some days we literally log because the only thing out is the 90+ mid Zerg. Sucks when all the groups end up on hib/alb. Would allow us to balance the real daoc out. Zergers gonna zerg no stopping that.

As of 2:23PM Pacific Standard Time, 10/5/2019, there is a 100+ Hib zerg and a 75+ Alb Zerg invading Midgard right now. Please stop complaining about NA primetime and Midgard as if it's the only realm running massive zergs. All of the realms are capable of fielding a significantly sized zerg.

The only thing a reduction in the timer will accomplish in this scenario is that every Midgard who has a Hib or an Alb set of characters will simply log to Hib or Alb for the easy RPs.

Sat 5 Oct 2019 11:26 PM by Kurbsen

Ceseuron wrote: ↑
Sat 5 Oct 2019 9:27 PM
Keelia wrote: ↑
Fri 4 Oct 2019 10:42 PM
Something needs to be done about NA time. Some days we literally log because the only thing out is the 90+ mid Zerg. Sucks when all the groups end up on hib/alb. Would allow us to balance the real daoc out. Zergers gonna zerg no stopping that.

As of 2:23PM Pacific Standard Time, 10/5/2019, there is a 100+ Hib zerg and a 75+ Alb Zerg invading Midgard right now. Please stop complaining about NA primetime and Midgard as if it's the only realm running massive zergs. All of the realms are capable of fielding a significantly sized zerg.

The only thing a reduction in the timer will accomplish in this scenario is that every Midgard who has a Hib or an Alb set of characters will simply log to Hib or Alb for the easy RPs.

NA time is 8 est- midnight tho.. 2:23 pst is 5 pm est.. thats the end of euro prime. So we are talking about two different time periods there.

Sun 6 Oct 2019 1:38 AM by gotwqqd

Create a queue for forced realm change so you can continue to have fun and play but are committed to the change from when you joined the list

Sun 6 Oct 2019 7:11 AM by Oxa

missing 1H in the votes

Sun 6 Oct 2019 8:40 AM by Raunz

I rethink my position and 24hours would be perfect timer to end the server so we get a new one faster.

Sun 6 Oct 2019 8:55 AM by Chaskha

Ceseuron wrote: ↑
Sat 5 Oct 2019 9:27 PM
Keelia wrote: ↑
Fri 4 Oct 2019 10:42 PM
Something needs to be done about NA time. Some days we literally log because the only thing out is the 90+ mid Zerg. Sucks when all the groups end up on hib/alb. Would allow us to balance the real daoc out. Zergers gonna zerg no stopping that.

As of 2:23PM Pacific Standard Time, 10/5/2019, there is a 100+ Hib zerg and a 75+ Alb Zerg invading Midgard right now. Please stop complaining about NA primetime and Midgard as if it's the only realm running massive zergs. All of the realms are capable of fielding a significantly sized zerg.

The only thing a reduction in the timer will accomplish in this scenario is that every Midgard who has a Hib or an Alb set of characters will simply log to Hib or Alb for the easy RPs.

Even a 1h timer would no do what you say. Once you logged in a character and realize the big zergs are not in your chosen realm, you would have to log off, wait an hour (right in your play time session) and then log to another realm. I don't know many players who'd cut an hour of playtime just to log in another realm and facing that the situation even possibly changed.
Again it is a non argument like spying. Because if you want to know the zergs counts you can just have a look at the realm figures, go to a specific realm discord and ask and maybe even have a look to a streamer if there is any zerg streamer (dunno, I'm not into watching others play). Hell, tomorrow some dude could build an app with a a few thrustee per realm wishing to report the zerg numbers every half an hour and/or do all sort of rvr reporting. Timer is just a small counter measure. I'm personally happy with 4h but only 1h would bring the same efficiency and allow more flexibility.

Sun 6 Oct 2019 1:48 PM by chryso

Just make an 8-man discord. Let all of the groups know and first ones on can post, "We are playing hib today." Others can play accordingly.

Sun 6 Oct 2019 1:55 PM by Zouz

chryso wrote: ↑
Sun 6 Oct 2019 1:48 PM
Just make an 8-man discord. Let all of the groups know and first ones on can post, "We are playing hib today." Others can play accordingly.

There already is one, but most groups don't read, and half the ones who read it use it to dodge (like the /gvg list).

Sun 6 Oct 2019 4:11 PM by Forlornhope

Ceseuron wrote: ↑
Sat 5 Oct 2019 9:27 PM
Keelia wrote: ↑
Fri 4 Oct 2019 10:42 PM
Something needs to be done about NA time. Some days we literally log because the only thing out is the 90+ mid Zerg. Sucks when all the groups end up on hib/alb. Would allow us to balance the real daoc out. Zergers gonna zerg no stopping that.

As of 2:23PM Pacific Standard Time, 10/5/2019, there is a 100+ Hib zerg and a 75+ Alb Zerg invading Midgard right now. Please stop complaining about NA primetime and Midgard as if it's the only realm running massive zergs. All of the realms are capable of fielding a significantly sized zerg.

The only thing a reduction in the timer will accomplish in this scenario is that every Midgard who has a Hib or an Alb set of characters will simply log to Hib or Alb for the easy RPs.

The difference is there's actually other groups running around EU prime, plenty of good 8mans. In NA time, on most nights there's literally nothing else. Or the picking is so slim you can't find anything else. So you're reduced to either circling bled/beno/crauch to get 1-5 kills an hour there or either defending your keep with 12 people vs 80+. Or yolo MoC bombing the zerg at a tower they're taking, which works about 5% of the time. So, run around and do essentially nothing, since we can't even strategically break their port in their homeland any more, or wiping every run on 12v80 fights.

Sun 6 Oct 2019 11:00 PM by Catholocate

Taniquetil wrote: ↑
Wed 2 Oct 2019 3:32 PM
Nice as always. Would you consider rewarding realm loyalty too, as a way of "allowing" easy switching of realms, but encouraging people to consider swapping more carefully than just flipping back and forth? Putting the choice in each persons hands.

On the one hand a switch after 4-24hrs is possible, but on the other hand a reward for realm loyalty is also appealing and potentially a reason to stick to/commit to a realm more consistently?

Holy crap! I love this! Except no free rps, please. How about a "champion of the realm" bonus, i.e. damage bonus? Maybe scales, with a Max of 6-8% or so.

Mon 7 Oct 2019 6:36 AM by Razur Ur

Why not Vote in this forum? I didnt know how i can vote in game command ;-/. Pop up window in the game would be nice!

Mon 7 Oct 2019 7:05 AM by Sepplord

Catholocate wrote: ↑
Sun 6 Oct 2019 11:00 PM
Taniquetil wrote: ↑
Wed 2 Oct 2019 3:32 PM
Nice as always. Would you consider rewarding realm loyalty too, as a way of "allowing" easy switching of realms, but encouraging people to consider swapping more carefully than just flipping back and forth? Putting the choice in each persons hands.

On the one hand a switch after 4-24hrs is possible, but on the other hand a reward for realm loyalty is also appealing and potentially a reason to stick to/commit to a realm more consistently?

Holy crap! I love this! Except no free rps, please. How about a "champion of the realm" bonus, i.e. damage bonus? Maybe scales, with a Max of 6-8% or so.

damage bonus is a huge no from me

Mon 7 Oct 2019 9:36 AM by Raunz

Dark age of Camelot

Mon 7 Oct 2019 11:48 AM by Keelia

Zouz wrote: ↑
Sun 6 Oct 2019 1:55 PM
chryso wrote: ↑
Sun 6 Oct 2019 1:48 PM
Just make an 8-man discord. Let all of the groups know and first ones on can post, "We are playing hib today." Others can play accordingly.

There already is one, but most groups don't read, and half the ones who read it use it to dodge (like the /gvg list).

Nah only group who actively dodged now a days is Phil/Tayters group, and since they finally beat the hib groups, they think they the top 8 man now. They like 2-18 against us and even worse agaisnt numlock/celeny because they run a lot more than we do lately.

Mon 7 Oct 2019 12:19 PM by Sepplord

Keelia wrote: ↑
Mon 7 Oct 2019 11:48 AM
Zouz wrote: ↑
Sun 6 Oct 2019 1:55 PM
chryso wrote: ↑
Sun 6 Oct 2019 1:48 PM
Just make an 8-man discord. Let all of the groups know and first ones on can post, "We are playing hib today." Others can play accordingly.

There already is one, but most groups don't read, and half the ones who read it use it to dodge (like the /gvg list).

Nah only group who actively dodged now a days is Phil/Tayters group, and since they finally beat the hib groups, they think they the top 8 man now. They like 2-18 against us and even worse agaisnt numlock/celeny because they run a lot more than we do lately.

I really need to start looking at names, but from a 4man POV, the amount of 8mans that burn long-CD RAs like MoC / ST / TWF against a group half their size is too damn high *insert meme pic*

Mon 7 Oct 2019 12:40 PM by Keelia

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Mon 7 Oct 2019 12:19 PM
Keelia wrote: ↑
Mon 7 Oct 2019 11:48 AM
Zouz wrote: ↑
Sun 6 Oct 2019 1:55 PM
There already is one, but most groups don't read, and half the ones who read it use it to dodge (like the /gvg list).

Nah only group who actively dodged now a days is Phil/Tayters group, and since they finally beat the hib groups, they think they the top 8 man now. They like 2-18 against us and even worse agaisnt numlock/celeny because they run a lot more than we do lately.

I really need to start looking at names, but from a 4man POV, the amount of 8mans that burn long-CD RAs like MoC / ST / TWF against a group half their size is too damn high *insert meme pic*

Tell me about it, we hit The Deciples of Merlin with a 4 man and no debuffer and their 8 man blew purges, and SoSed into us. We had a good laugh as we kited their 8 man around Forest sausage for 10 mins only to kill ourselves on CS.

Mon 7 Oct 2019 9:44 PM by chewchew

Uthred wrote: ↑
Thu 3 Oct 2019 9:15 PM
Ferboten wrote: ↑
Thu 3 Oct 2019 8:04 PM
Uthred wrote: ↑
Wed 2 Oct 2019 3:23 PM
The primary reason for the realm timer is that we don't want a snowball effect to occur on a given evening or people changing realms while a certain bg leader is online and switching back only afterwards. While a shorter realm timer would make the opposite possible as well, people switching over to the less populated realm, the majority of people will not, instead they are more likely to switch to the dominating realm of the evening.

What is this based off of? Or is it just an assumption? You were willing to do a NF test for a week before holding a vote to permanently switch to NF, why not try removing the timer or have a very short one (1 hr max) for a week and see what, if any effect it has on bandwagon realm hoppers?

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Thu 3 Oct 2019 10:01 AM
That is precisely what we did: Ywain had no realm timer, we decided to have one in large part precisely because of the negative effects that could be seen there, the snow balling / joining some raid leader was / is the main reason for many on the staff as well as the insulting / flaming that could even be seen in beta. Sure some may have mentioned realm pride or even "spying", but those are mainly just the strawman arguments for those that want the timer removal.
Same effect was also visable on Uthgard 1.

https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=10921&p=84097#p84097

tl;dr: from a uth1 player perspective problems with having no realm-timer were only minor, and advantages outweighted them.
might be a problem on events with too many winning-team joiners. suggestion: standard low realm timer (<4h !) or no timer at all, and higher realm timer on event-days.

Tue 8 Oct 2019 9:37 PM by Ipponme

I personally don't mind the realm timer, but I do find the 12 hour timer unnecessarily awkward.

I play all three realms, because I enjoy classes in all 3 realms, and prefer to play one for a period of time, before switching. As it is now I have to switch more often then I like to pay house rent. I couldn't care less about which realm is dominant.

If I want to play a certain realm on a weekend morning, say 10am, but I am on another realm the night before, I have to log off and not play at all at 10pm on a weekend night.

I think a normal break/sleeptime is a good compromise, and voted for 8 hours, but 6 would work.

Wed 9 Oct 2019 1:42 AM by Forlornhope

Ipponme wrote: ↑
Tue 8 Oct 2019 9:37 PM
I personally don't mind the realm timer, but I do find the 12 hour timer unnecessarily awkward.

I play all three realms, because I enjoy classes in all 3 realms, and prefer to play one for a period of time, before switching. As it is now I have to switch more often then I like to pay house rent. I couldn't care less about which realm is dominant.

If I want to play a certain realm on a weekend morning, say 10am, but I am on another realm the night before, I have to log off and not play at all at 10pm on a weekend night.

I think a normal break/sleeptime is a good compromise, and voted for 8 hours, but 6 would work.

You can pay rent on all realms with the new /rent command. I advise you keep up with the patchnotes posted in the phoenix discord, it will keep ya up to date

Thu 10 Oct 2019 4:10 PM by Macoto86

A)/B) 4 and 6 hours sound good to me

I really like 2 of the ideas mentioned above:
- loyalty system for people that stick to one realm (with a fixed max. bonus) / resets when the person switches realm (shewtz)
- a timer based on realm population with: Shorter timer from high to low pop and a longer timer from low to high pop. realm (adlam)

Thanks Phoenixteam

Fri 11 Oct 2019 10:33 AM by Chill

Uthred wrote: ↑
Thu 3 Oct 2019 9:15 PM
Ferboten wrote: ↑
Thu 3 Oct 2019 8:04 PM
Uthred wrote: ↑
Wed 2 Oct 2019 3:23 PM
The primary reason for the realm timer is that we don't want a snowball effect to occur on a given evening or people changing realms while a certain bg leader is online and switching back only afterwards. While a shorter realm timer would make the opposite possible as well, people switching over to the less populated realm, the majority of people will not, instead they are more likely to switch to the dominating realm of the evening.

What is this based off of? Or is it just an assumption? You were willing to do a NF test for a week before holding a vote to permanently switch to NF, why not try removing the timer or have a very short one (1 hr max) for a week and see what, if any effect it has on bandwagon realm hoppers?

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Thu 3 Oct 2019 10:01 AM
That is precisely what we did: Ywain had no realm timer, we decided to have one in large part precisely because of the negative effects that could be seen there, the snow balling / joining some raid leader was / is the main reason for many on the staff as well as the insulting / flaming that could even be seen in beta. Sure some may have mentioned realm pride or even "spying", but those are mainly just the strawman arguments for those that want the timer removal.
Same effect was also visable on Uthgard 1.

adlam wrote: ↑
Wed 2 Oct 2019 4:37 PM
Could the timer be partially based on realm pop? That could eliminate the snowball effect mentioned, while providing increased flexibility for most.

If you want to relog from overpop to underpop, have like 15 minutes. Same for underpop to underpop. But maybe an hour (or 4...) for underpop to overpop. Encourage people to balance populations by relogging to underpop realms. Timer could be set when you log out.

#solution

Sat 12 Oct 2019 5:11 PM by borodino1812

Razur Ur wrote: ↑
Mon 7 Oct 2019 6:36 AM
Why not Vote in this forum? I didnt know how i can vote in game command ;-/. Pop up window in the game would be nice!

/vote

Sun 13 Oct 2019 9:13 PM by elfwitch

I really find it funny how people are still complaining saying 4hrs is still way to long for the realm switch timer and that it should be lowered to 1hr. Be happy the devs are possibly gonna lower the realm switch timer depending on how the votes go. I voted for the 4hr realm switch timer myself and that should be plenty long enough! If you want to change realms without a timer, go back to live then. I know me myself, I only play hibs here and refuse to start over on the other 2 realms. Be grateful that you're even able to change realms here unlike crap uthgard. I just find it funny how it's always the same players on forums crying about every little thing. So if you can't find something to do within the 4hr time period (if it gets changed to that) then you need to get a better life instead of living on daoc 24/7 and crying about every little issue when it's not that big of a deal.....

Mon 14 Oct 2019 10:53 AM by Laviski

when is the result released?

Mon 14 Oct 2019 6:28 PM by Jib

A realm timer serves no purpose.

It just makes it harder to enjoy the game the way you want to play that day.

Mon 14 Oct 2019 6:38 PM by Roto23

When does this vote end?

Mon 14 Oct 2019 6:59 PM by romulus

Hi!
The vote runs until October 16th.

Mon 14 Oct 2019 7:39 PM by gotwqqd

Jib wrote: ↑
Mon 14 Oct 2019 6:28 PM
A realm timer serves no purpose.

It just makes it harder to enjoy the game the way you want to play that day.

Keep telling yourself this

Tue 15 Oct 2019 7:54 AM by Lipsi

I have being wondering ...

How is the final result going to be calculated ?
For instance if results are :
- 4h - 35%
- 8h - 25%
- 12h - 40%
The result with highest score is 12 hours, yet there are a total of 60% of player base requiring a timer of 8 hours or less, and within them more players asking for 4 hours than for 8 hours.
In this example should it be 12 hours, 8 hours or 4 hours or 8 hours and 12 minutes (the weighted average) ?

Tue 15 Oct 2019 12:09 PM by Roto23

Lipsi wrote: ↑
Tue 15 Oct 2019 7:54 AM
I have being wondering ...

How is the final result going to be calculated ?
For instance if results are :
- 4h - 35%
- 8h - 25%
- 12h - 40%
The result with highest score is 12 hours, yet there are a total of 60% of player base requiring a timer of 8 hours or less, and within them more players asking for 4 hours than for 8 hours.
In this example should it be 12 hours, 8 hours or 4 hours or 8 hours and 12 minutes (the weighted average) ?

lol, nice catch. In your example the 8h hurt the 4h by "splitting" the vote. I like your 8h 12 min suggestion!

Tue 15 Oct 2019 4:04 PM by Sepplord

Roto23 wrote: ↑
Tue 15 Oct 2019 12:09 PM
Lipsi wrote: ↑
Tue 15 Oct 2019 7:54 AM
I have being wondering ...

How is the final result going to be calculated ?
For instance if results are :
- 4h - 35%
- 8h - 25%
- 12h - 40%
The result with highest score is 12 hours, yet there are a total of 60% of player base requiring a timer of 8 hours or less, and within them more players asking for 4 hours than for 8 hours.
In this example should it be 12 hours, 8 hours or 4 hours or 8 hours and 12 minutes (the weighted average) ?

lol, nice catch. In your example the 8h hurt the 4h by "splitting" the vote. I like your 8h 12 min suggestion!

It could also be hurting the 12hour option....there's really no way to know how many of the 8hour voters are in the 8-10h hour bracket and how many in the 6-8hour bracket. Unless you make votes on that bracket too....but more brackets doesn't really increase accuracy, that's also a fallacy (that i can't explain anymore myself, it gets quite complicated)

Look at the most important votes that exist: Political Elections. Even there each country has its own system (often with very different systems for different positions) with upside and downsides and no real BEST solution. I am a fan of having votes on multiple options, and then a direct FPTP-vote on two final contenders but that already means that you have to do two rounds of voting which doubles the effort compared to a single round.

Wed 16 Oct 2019 12:48 AM by

gruenesschaf

Lipsi wrote: ↑
Tue 15 Oct 2019 7:54 AM
I have being wondering ...

How is the final result going to be calculated ?
For instance if results are :
- 4h - 35%
- 8h - 25%
- 12h - 40%
The result with highest score is 12 hours, yet there are a total of 60% of player base requiring a timer of 8 hours or less, and within them more players asking for 4 hours than for 8 hours.
In this example should it be 12 hours, 8 hours or 4 hours or 8 hours and 12 minutes (the weighted average) ?

Luckily one of the options at the ends (4h, 24h) has 60% of the total vote making it rather easy to just take that as is. The vote will close later today at which point the result will be posted and go into effect.

Wed 16 Oct 2019 4:13 AM by easytoremember

Lipsi wrote: ↑
Tue 15 Oct 2019 7:54 AM
I have being wondering ...

How is the final result going to be calculated ?
For instance if results are :
- 4h - 35%
- 8h - 25%
- 12h - 40%
The result with highest score is 12 hours, yet there are a total of 60% of player base requiring a timer of 8 hours or less, and within them more players asking for 4 hours than for 8 hours.

There's a total of 65% in your example requiring a timer of 8 hours or more, with more players asking for 12 hours than for 8 hours

Wed 16 Oct 2019 6:40 AM by Sepplord

gruenesschaf wrote: ↑
Wed 16 Oct 2019 12:48 AM
Lipsi wrote: ↑
Tue 15 Oct 2019 7:54 AM
I have being wondering ...

How is the final result going to be calculated ?
For instance if results are :
- 4h - 35%
- 8h - 25%
- 12h - 40%
The result with highest score is 12 hours, yet there are a total of 60% of player base requiring a timer of 8 hours or less, and within them more players asking for 4 hours than for 8 hours.
In this example should it be 12 hours, 8 hours or 4 hours or 8 hours and 12 minutes (the weighted average) ?

Luckily one of the options at the ends (4h, 24h) has 60% of the total vote making it rather easy to just take that as is. The vote will close later today at which point the result will be posted and go into effect.

Oh lord, the shitstorm that will come when it is the 24h option would be insane

Wed 16 Oct 2019 10:54 AM by

Uthred

Finally, the voting has come to an end. Here is the result:

4 hours: 1423 = 59,07%
6 hours: 225 = 9,34%
8 hours: 149 = 6,18%
12 hours: 231 = 9,58%
24 hours: 381 = 15,81%

The new realm timer will be active after the next reboot which will be in about 2 hours from now. Thanks to everyone who voted.