Is this a PVE server? - Phoenix Freeshard

Just wondering if this is primarily a PvE server.

Feathers drop more in PVE than keeps give in RvR.

The Feather drop rate sucks for anyone not in power guild 5000 thats been around since 2005 and btw, they are not recruiting. 20k per item? It took me 20 minutes to kill the wurm in DF and i got 1000 feathers. What? I went on a 4 hour Galla raid and only got 9k. What? Why do you want me to spend so much time PVEing? I dont get this.

Feather exchange rate is better for BP than earning BP in RvR.

You add cosmetic items that cost insane BP points. Which means...more PVE for feather farming.

Now Crafting incentives for RvR that make zero sense. Would you:

A. Spend 2+ hours as the already losing realm to form a keep taking raid to earn "crafting time %."

or

B. Hit the /caftqueue macro and just wait longer because the risk versus reward is so skewed to you wasting time or getting one keep for a small % of crafting time that you are always better off just waiting longer for the craft to finish. To even think this will drive RvR is idiotic and dumb. It has to be said. This is not risk versus reward at all. Its Be stupid, or be smart and just take longer.

Is this a PVE server? Where are the real RvR incentives?

Wed 15 Aug 2018 2:43 AM by Niix

I think this is a bit unfair... I’m sorry you don’t enjoy PvE at all, but some people do and in order to keep that content actually relevant you either nerf it so 1fg can do it or you force incentives to make more people want to.

If you only care about RvR then just farm plat and get geared and then RvR... literally nothing stopping you. You don’t actually need ANYTHING from dungeons to succeed.

Wed 15 Aug 2018 3:35 AM by daocgod

they really need to lower the feather price if they are going to continue their crusade to make literally every named mob thats purple cancer. went to krondon thinking i could get some feathers for endo pots with a 5man and the mob stunned me for 40 seconds. really livelike, btw.

or add feathers for rvr kills be it converting bp or w/e. i really don't want to spend a whole day doing a caer shitti raid to get potions.

Wed 15 Aug 2018 4:09 AM by Ceen

Roor wrote: ↑
Wed 15 Aug 2018 2:37 AM
Just wondering if this is primarily a PvE server.

Feathers drop more in PVE than keeps give in RvR.

The Feather drop rate sucks for anyone not in power guild 5000 thats been around since 2005 and btw, they are not recruiting. 20k per item? It took me 20 minutes to kill the wurm in DF and i got 1000 feathers. What? I went on a 4 hour Galla raid and only got 9k. What? Why do you want me to spend so much time PVEing? I dont get this.

Feather exchange rate is better for BP than earning BP in RvR.

You add cosmetic items that cost insane BP points. Which means...more PVE for feather farming.

Now Crafting incentives for RvR that make zero sense. Would you:

A. Spend 2+ hours as the already losing realm to form a keep taking raid to earn "crafting time %."

or

B. Hit the /caftqueue macro and just wait longer because the risk versus reward is so skewed to you wasting time or getting one keep for a small % of crafting time that you are always better off just waiting longer for the craft to finish. To even think this will drive RvR is idiotic and dumb. It has to be said. This is not risk versus reward at all. Its Be stupid, or be smart and just take longer.

Is this a PVE server? Where are the real RvR incentives?

How many items would you get without feathers? Its a bonus. If you are such a hardcore pvp guy you can simply go to a crafter and are done.

Wed 15 Aug 2018 4:56 AM by Druth

Like someone said, feathers are for min/maxers, the rogs enable you to RvR from lvl 50, and even 40 if you want.

The only thing holding you back to PvE, is that you want a superb template before doing RvR.

Wed 15 Aug 2018 5:35 AM by Galahad

Druth wrote: ↑
Wed 15 Aug 2018 4:56 AM
Like someone said, feathers are for min/maxers, the rogs enable you to RvR from lvl 50, and even 40 if you want.

The only thing holding you back to PvE, is that you want a superb template before doing RvR.

Thank you!

And yes, people need to get it out of their system that just because there are premium items/pots/whatever that they automatically have to be available to them within the time they are willing to commit and through the gameplay style they prefer. Everyone can get a good template on our server in basically no time at all, and the feather drops from keeps should be sufficient to keep you stocked with relevant potions.

Feathers are primarily a "raid token", and adding them to *optional* potions is a way for us to drain them from the game.

Wed 15 Aug 2018 12:17 PM by heardstheword

RvR has the benefit of being more fun (for some/most), and it provides RPs/BPs.

PvE on the otherhand has item drops and gold. Once your character is templated, there isn't a MAJOR reason to continue PvEing. Feathers are there to still provide the need for PvE post-template.

PvE is now beneficial no matter where your character stands due to alchemy pots.

Wed 15 Aug 2018 6:28 PM by Terrorsauce

Galahad wrote: ↑
Wed 15 Aug 2018 5:35 AM
Druth wrote: ↑
Wed 15 Aug 2018 4:56 AM
Like someone said, feathers are for min/maxers, the rogs enable you to RvR from lvl 50, and even 40 if you want.

The only thing holding you back to PvE, is that you want a superb template before doing RvR.

Thank you!

And yes, people need to get it out of their system that just because there are premium items/pots/whatever that they automatically have to be available to them within the time they are willing to commit and through the gameplay style they prefer. Everyone can get a good template on our server in basically no time at all, and the feather drops from keeps should be sufficient to keep you stocked with relevant potions.

Feathers are primarily a "raid token", and adding them to *optional* potions is a way for us to drain them from the game.

Thats far from true. There are certain weapons and other items people will have that sets them apart from others on the RvR field. Feathers are required to get those items. This narrative you are trying to sew that,

"Feathers are only required for 1 or 2 items, and are just a bonus"

Is actually a lie. Temping is about min/maxing. Feathers only effect the guy who doesnt have a guild since 2004. Those guys can farm feathers they require easily because of the man power. I can not. I have sit around in /lfg looking for a feather farm. The RvR guys in big guilds will have their 5+ feather items and then come here responding to people like myself saying,

"THATS NOT TRUE YOU ONLY NEED TWO!"

Its a farce, and I cant even believe you are trying to act like this is beneficial in any way to the server. It hurts the guy who finds the server one day and says, oh wow look a daoc server! I should try that! Then he sees how much PVE farming he has to do and since everyone has stacked feathers in the bank by then no one is actually pveing anymore. So he cant get them easily. Why would you want this system? Its one thing to start DaoC late and have to face a bunch of RR6 guys, but now adding having to farm 50k+ feathers as well? Someone has lost touch with reality here. No one wants time sinks like this. This is how you kill a good server, and insure at the same time you get no new players. Which means 1 month of initial fun then a slow decline in players until nothing. All it takes on a private server is for people to feel like its not worth it to play anymore because the population is lacking. Then its the beginning of the end. Feathers will expedite this radically in the current form.

WHY CANT I EARN FEATHERS THROUGH RVR. IF EVERYTHING IS BOUGHT BY FEATHERS AND THE ONLY WAY TO GET FEATHERS IS PVE THEN THIS IS A PVE SERVER. Just rename it to pheonix COOP so people like myself are not confused. Add an arena for the 8v8 guys and boom you got yourself WoW 2.0 DaoC style. Seems this is what most people want.

Wed 15 Aug 2018 6:49 PM by Seigmoraig

Terrorsauce wrote: ↑
Wed 15 Aug 2018 6:28 PM
Galahad wrote: ↑
Wed 15 Aug 2018 5:35 AM
Druth wrote: ↑
Wed 15 Aug 2018 4:56 AM
Like someone said, feathers are for min/maxers, the rogs enable you to RvR from lvl 50, and even 40 if you want.

The only thing holding you back to PvE, is that you want a superb template before doing RvR.

Thank you!

And yes, people need to get it out of their system that just because there are premium items/pots/whatever that they automatically have to be available to them within the time they are willing to commit and through the gameplay style they prefer. Everyone can get a good template on our server in basically no time at all, and the feather drops from keeps should be sufficient to keep you stocked with relevant potions.

Feathers are primarily a "raid token", and adding them to *optional* potions is a way for us to drain them from the game.

Thats far from true. There are certain weapons and other items people will have that sets them apart from others on the RvR field. Feathers are required to get those items. This narrative you are trying to sew that,

"Feathers are only required for 1 or 2 items, and are just a bonus"

Is actually a lie. Temping is about min/maxing. Feathers only effect the guy who doesnt have a guild since 2004. Those guys can farm feathers they require easily because of the man power. I can not. I have sit around in /lfg looking for a feather farm. The RvR guys in big guilds will have their 5+ feather items and then come here responding to people like myself saying,

"THATS NOT TRUE YOU ONLY NEED TWO!"

Its a farce, and I cant even believe you are trying to act like this is beneficial in any way to the server. It hurts the guy who finds the server one day and says, oh wow look a daoc server! I should try that! Then he sees how much PVE farming he has to do and since everyone has stacked feathers in the bank by then no one is actually pveing anymore. So he cant get them easily. Why would you want this system? Its one thing to start DaoC late and have to face a bunch of RR6 guys, but now adding having to farm 50k+ feathers as well? Someone has lost touch with reality here. No one wants time sinks like this. This is how you kill a good server, and insure at the same time you get no new players. Which means 1 month of initial fun then a slow decline in players until nothing. All it takes on a private server is for people to feel like its not worth it to play anymore because the population is lacking. Then its the beginning of the end. Feathers will expedite this radically in the current form.

WHY CANT I EARN FEATHERS THROUGH RVR. IF EVERYTHING IS BOUGHT BY FEATHERS AND THE ONLY WAY TO GET FEATHERS IS PVE THEN THIS IS A PVE SERVER. Just rename it to pheonix COOP so people like myself are not confused. Add an arena for the 8v8 guys and boom you got yourself WoW 2.0 DaoC style. Seems this is what most people want.

I am just wondering here, how did you get the raid items elsewhere where there was no feather system ? you purchased it off the CMs or you got them yourself in the raid, which obviously isn't the case because you just said you never had the will to be in a guild since 2004 (which is entirely your fault be it schedule conflicts or personal conflicts, it's still your fault for not having a guild).
With the feather system the CMs will have a much higher amount of raid items since people who actually like PVE will be able to farm these outside of a raid setting for the sole purpose of selling them in the housing zones.
This game has both PvE and PvP content and systems meet somewhere in the middle of it. I don't want to be that guy here but if all you want to do is exclusiely PvP, there is a place called live that is like that, you literally never need to go anywhere other than the pvp zones and the housing zones.
It's also very true that you will only need 1 or 2 raid items as core items in your build because of how powerful the ROGs are here. While it's true that the best ROGs drop in raids (90 bonus level) eventually they will make their way to the CMs and you will be able to buy them.

Wed 15 Aug 2018 6:53 PM by Terrorsauce

Seigmoraig wrote: ↑
Wed 15 Aug 2018 6:49 PM
Terrorsauce wrote: ↑
Wed 15 Aug 2018 6:28 PM
Galahad wrote: ↑
Wed 15 Aug 2018 5:35 AM
Thank you!

And yes, people need to get it out of their system that just because there are premium items/pots/whatever that they automatically have to be available to them within the time they are willing to commit and through the gameplay style they prefer. Everyone can get a good template on our server in basically no time at all, and the feather drops from keeps should be sufficient to keep you stocked with relevant potions.

Feathers are primarily a "raid token", and adding them to *optional* potions is a way for us to drain them from the game.

Thats far from true. There are certain weapons and other items people will have that sets them apart from others on the RvR field. Feathers are required to get those items. This narrative you are trying to sew that,

"Feathers are only required for 1 or 2 items, and are just a bonus"

Is actually a lie. Temping is about min/maxing. Feathers only effect the guy who doesnt have a guild since 2004. Those guys can farm feathers they require easily because of the man power. I can not. I have sit around in /lfg looking for a feather farm. The RvR guys in big guilds will have their 5+ feather items and then come here responding to people like myself saying,

"THATS NOT TRUE YOU ONLY NEED TWO!"

Its a farce, and I cant even believe you are trying to act like this is beneficial in any way to the server. It hurts the guy who finds the server one day and says, oh wow look a daoc server! I should try that! Then he sees how much PVE farming he has to do and since everyone has stacked feathers in the bank by then no one is actually pveing anymore. So he cant get them easily. Why would you want this system? Its one thing to start DaoC late and have to face a bunch of RR6 guys, but now adding having to farm 50k+ feathers as well? Someone has lost touch with reality here. No one wants time sinks like this. This is how you kill a good server, and insure at the same time you get no new players. Which means 1 month of initial fun then a slow decline in players until nothing. All it takes on a private server is for people to feel like its not worth it to play anymore because the population is lacking. Then its the beginning of the end. Feathers will expedite this radically in the current form.

WHY CANT I EARN FEATHERS THROUGH RVR. IF EVERYTHING IS BOUGHT BY FEATHERS AND THE ONLY WAY TO GET FEATHERS IS PVE THEN THIS IS A PVE SERVER. Just rename it to pheonix COOP so people like myself are not confused. Add an arena for the 8v8 guys and boom you got yourself WoW 2.0 DaoC style. Seems this is what most people want.

I am just wondering here, how did you get the raid items elsewhere where there was no feather system ? you purchased it off the CMs or you got them yourself in the raid, which obviously isn't the case because you just said you never had the will to be in a guild since 2004 (which is entirely your fault be it schedule conflicts or personal conflicts, it's still your fault for not having a guild).
With the feather system the CMs will have a much higher amount of raid items since people who actually like PVE will be able to farm these outside of a raid setting for the sole purpose of selling them in the housing zones.
This game has both PvE and PvP content and systems meet somewhere in the middle of it. I don't want to be that guy here but if all you want to do is exclusiely PvP, there is a place called live that is like that, you literally never need to go anywhere other than the pvp zones and the housing zones.
It's also very true that you will only need 1 or 2 raid items as core items in your build because of how powerful the ROGs are here. While it's true that the best ROGs drop in raids (90 bonus level) eventually they will make their way to the CMs and you will be able to buy them.

Im just wondering here....why does it have to be so skewed in the favor of time sinks and PVE rather than RVR? DAOC is RvR based. Not PVE based. Everquest is PVE based. You are fundamentally playing the wrong game if all you want to do is PVE in DAoC. Just the facts and the way it is. To put systems in place that excel PVE over RvR in DaoC is foolish. DaoC's longevity is about grinding RR ranks through PVP. Not grinding feathers in a dungeon.

A few things need to happen to tip the balance back to the scales:

1. Feathers need to be obtainable in RvR.

2. Item cost for Feathers need to be cut in half. 5k and 10k items instead of 20k and 10k.

Then we are talking. Without those two things this is just a glorified PVE server that will die after a month. Someone has to say it or else this madness might continue.

Wed 15 Aug 2018 7:01 PM by Galahad

Despite all the things we have done to ease up the PvE grind (if you can even call it that), PvE is still part of the "classic" setting we are emulating here . If that is not for you, or if you are unable to enjoy the game without having the best of the bestest items, that's ok - but maybe this server is not for you then. As others have said, getting these items that you deem to be so indispensable, is significantly easier here then it would have been in 2003 (or on the server that shall not be named^^). Basically, that is the best we can and/or will do at this point. We have always said that we want to create a server that brings back "classic" DAoC in a way that allows it to fit into the life of an adult with family and job. But that doesn't not mean that we will entirely trivialize such things as itemization. Just as an reminder, but Si was entirely a PvE expansion - and to a large extent that is also true for ToA. So saying that DAoC is purely an RvR game is more a reflection of your personal preference than actual fact.

Wed 15 Aug 2018 7:54 PM by daocgod

Well you definitely managed that, one can start a craftqueue, cook dinner and come back to it being finished. Thanks gms.

Wed 15 Aug 2018 8:19 PM by relvinian

". If that is not for you, or if you are unable to enjoy the game without having the best of the bestest items, that's ok - but maybe this server is not for you then"

Not good marketing. Every player matters. Population is everything to an mmog server.

Wed 15 Aug 2018 8:25 PM by Midgit

relvinian wrote: ↑
Wed 15 Aug 2018 8:19 PM
". If that is not for you, or if you are unable to enjoy the game without having the best of the bestest items, that's ok - but maybe this server is not for you then"

Not good marketing. Every player matters. Population is everything to an mmog server.

No, not every player matters. If they don't like where the server is going they can voice their opinion. If nobody agrees with you then yes... you can go fck off to another server or quit gaming entirely. Don't care.

Wed 15 Aug 2018 8:38 PM by relvinian

Wouldn't you rather play with a lot of people, some who agree with you, some who disagree with you?

Understand, this is a game where people fight. The compete for resources and bragging rights.

When you get that lone enforcer title it is cool. When you get that rep it is cool.

Agreement is not necessary, but population is.

The most diverse server is actually a good thing. Casual and hardcore. Group and solo. Vet and newb. All are welcome.

I'm terrible myself. Can't wait to get out there and feed my rps to as many people as possible.

Wed 15 Aug 2018 9:32 PM by ramack

I love DAoC for the rvr/pvp. I have a family and a job that consumes many hours a week and really only get to sit down and play on weekends. I don't mind some Pve'ing post 50 occasionally if it feels like it will improve my character. It's actually pretty fun when you get that drop you need or the last of the feathers you were needing to farm. Next time you go out to rvr with your new items it almost feels like Christmas. I'm fine with how it is now.

Wed 15 Aug 2018 9:59 PM by Niix

relvinian wrote: ↑
Wed 15 Aug 2018 8:38 PM
Wouldn't you rather play with a lot of people, some who agree with you, some who disagree with you?

Understand, this is a game where people fight. The compete for resources and bragging rights.

When you get that lone enforcer title it is cool. When you get that rep it is cool.

Agreement is not necessary, but population is.

The most diverse server is actually a good thing. Casual and hardcore. Group and solo. Vet and newb. All are welcome.

I'm terrible myself. Can't wait to get out there and feed my rps to as many people as possible.

Are you trying to say they simply shouldn't say "maybe this server isn't for you"?

I mean I thought that was obvious tbh, but it doesn't mean it isn't true... if he's in the vast majority of how he thinks the server should operate chances are he will not get his way and if that is important enough of an issue then he will leave. I think the GMs are just saying that's fine, they aren't going to bend the decisions to the smallest minority with the loudest voice (this isn't american politics).

Wed 15 Aug 2018 10:18 PM by Terrorsauce

Galahad wrote: ↑
Wed 15 Aug 2018 7:01 PM
Despite all the things we have done to ease up the PvE grind (if you can even call it that), PvE is still part of the "classic" setting we are emulating here . If that is not for you, or if you are unable to enjoy the game without having the best of the bestest items, that's ok - but maybe this server is not for you then. As others have said, getting these items that you deem to be so indispensable, is significantly easier here then it would have been in 2003 (or on the server that shall not be named^^). Basically, that is the best we can and/or will do at this point. We have always said that we want to create a server that brings back "classic" DAoC in a way that allows it to fit into the life of an adult with family and job. But that doesn't not mean that we will entirely trivialize such things as itemization. Just as an reminder, but Si was entirely a PvE expansion - and to a large extent that is also true for ToA. So saying that DAoC is purely an RvR game is more a reflection of your personal preference than actual fact.

Taking a page out of the Uthgard server I see.

"if you dont like it, then leave"

Make sure thats on the main page of your website as the slogan if your going to use it as a rebuttal when someone comes along and gives feedback about a particular subject. Again, just so people like myself understand that you have no intentions of running a real RvR server. Just some glorified PvE feather farming server. I will make sure when people ask me about this server to tell them you share the same thoughts and opinions as the Uthgard devs when it comes to receiving feedback.

I love the people in 8 mans who come here and say,

"ALL YOU NEED IS ROG GEAR!"

Meanwhile they have 6+ feather items on. But only TWO are needed right?! So now I have to sit around for hours looking for a feather group just to compete in RvR?

No one has answered the main question:

WHY CANT I EARN FEATHERS IN RVR!?

As it stands this system only caters to the elitist few who have guilds since 2004. The average guy is fucked. So I guess enjoy a server with 4 teams of 8 mans running around after a month or two. Because thats all you will get with this PVE server. Cant wait until the same people saying its fine realize they have no targets but the same two 8 mans because everyone is feather farming in some dungeon.

Wed 15 Aug 2018 11:11 PM by

gruenesschaf

No 8 man can farm the epic dungeons. I really don't see how our feather system is even in the slightest bit elitist?

On hib there are daily dragon and / or galla raids and due to the feather system as well as general pve change these raids are always public as it doesn't really make much sense to do it privately with as few people as possible.

Wed 15 Aug 2018 11:15 PM by Throck

Terrorsauce wrote: ↑
Wed 15 Aug 2018 10:18 PM
As it stands this system only caters to the elitist few who have guilds since 2004. The average guy is fucked. So I guess enjoy a server with 4 teams of 8 mans running around after a month or two. Because thats all you will get with this PVE server. Cant wait until the same people saying its fine realize they have no targets but the same two 8 mans because everyone is feather farming in some dungeon.

This is quite possibly the most ridiculous post I have see on the forums so far. I think you totally misunderstand how feathers work and how DAoC actually was in classic. in order to get feather gear, you must both defeat the boss that drops that gear, and farm the feathers needed to buy it. The only difference between this server and any other SI server, is that it requires LESS farming to get the gear you want. Instead of killing a boss 10 times and never getting the loot you want, you can kill him once and farm some feathers so it takes you a few days to get a piece of gear instead of a few months. But if you do not like that system, guess what? You can still just run the raids and pray for your drops without doing any feather farming (just like in classic). Since these raids are also a good source of feathers, you are killing two birds with one stone. You might get your gear drop, but if not, you will save up enough feathers to buy it anyway.

This means people will be spending LESS time in PvE to get the gear they want and MORE time in RvR. It is also interesting how you think this is a PvE server when you level 10 times faster then Uthgard (which is the same patch set). The devs have made countless ways (eggs, xp items, less xp required, etc) to make it so you spend less time in PvE, and you still find a way to complain. They are also doing all of these RvR events and allowing teleportation straight to enemy zones to make RvR less time consuming and more open. You also get feathers for keep takes, which further reduces PvE time required.

Also, you say its good only for "the elitist few who have guilds since 2004", when there are PUBLIC raids of these instances multiple times a week spammed in LFG.

I normally do not agree with the whole "if you do not like it, then leave" mentality because it usually means the devs are not listening to the players. However, of all the private servers I have played, and I have played many, this server has the most open minded devs that actually listen to their user base and try to make it a good experience for them. So when you are talking so much crap about a server that so many people are enjoying and a dev team that does so much to improve QoL of the user base and even comparing this to Uthgard, I am going to have to say I agree with the statement "if you do not like it, then leave". The server does not need Toxic people like you ruining everyone else's good time.

Wed 15 Aug 2018 11:40 PM by relvinian

Niix wrote: ↑
Wed 15 Aug 2018 9:59 PM
relvinian wrote: ↑
Wed 15 Aug 2018 8:38 PM
Wouldn't you rather play with a lot of people, some who agree with you, some who disagree with you?

Understand, this is a game where people fight. The compete for resources and bragging rights.

When you get that lone enforcer title it is cool. When you get that rep it is cool.

Agreement is not necessary, but population is.

The most diverse server is actually a good thing. Casual and hardcore. Group and solo. Vet and newb. All are welcome.

I'm terrible myself. Can't wait to get out there and feed my rps to as many people as possible.

Are you trying to say they simply shouldn't say "maybe this server isn't for you"?

I mean I thought that was obvious tbh, but it doesn't mean it isn't true... if he's in the vast majority of how he thinks the server should operate chances are he will not get his way and if that is important enough of an issue then he will leave. I think the GMs are just saying that's fine, they aren't going to bend the decisions to the smallest minority with the loudest voice (this isn't american politics).

Nope, just bad marketing. One of the things they teach in sales is never say no. Or if you must say it really reluctantly but in a good way.

Another example is to lock threads and say nope, never happen. What if it was a reasonable idea? Even if you must then just say something nice like-- we are working on a lot of things so something like this would be way down the list.

I had a thread where I suggested that solo xp still felt to slow and I suggested 30% increase. Before it was actually discussed by the players or the devs much, uthred locked it and said no or whatever. Well that is his prerogative but during a beta test do you not think that xp rate should be discussed? Doesn't matter if you agree, disagree, whatever, don't shut people down, don't tell people if they don't like, don't play. Leave the threads open. Let people discuss. If you disagree, even if you are dev, just explain why you disagree.

you don't have to put in every suggestion but you don't even need to shut them down, just don't put it in.

Wed 15 Aug 2018 11:43 PM by Armsmancer

Really its not all that complicated, just picture pie charts and if overwhelmingly people in any community want something the hosts will oblige or lose them if its important enough to the community. The small sliver 5% people can be as loud as a minority as they want but this is the reality. Not taking sides, its objectively the reality.

Also, with the amount of RPs going around, ESPECIALLY after some folks were getting 100K rps over the weekend event, creating a post with this title is pretty funny to me.

Wed 15 Aug 2018 11:46 PM by Quik

Some of these posts, this one included, are just an attempt of a bitter person to try to bring a server down that is off to a great start.

Ignore'em Phoenix you're doing a great job =)

I love the balance of PvE and RvR that you have done so far.

Thu 16 Aug 2018 12:28 AM by relvinian

The original post expressed a point of view which may not be shared by everyone but it is someone's view.

I think most people just want fun. I think there should be some way for casual players or solo players to compete without spending a full time job gearing up.

I prefer not to craft and I prefer not to group. Right now my /played at lvl 23 is like 18 hours.

I'm paying for it. BUT, what about other people who don't want to craft/make alts/farm, etc. Do you want them to play or not?

Some people want high end pve and some want crafting and some want 8 man and some want solo.

You get the point. But the more inclusive the server is, the more people can play the game the way they want.

Thu 16 Aug 2018 9:37 AM by

Uthred

Terrorsauce wrote: ↑
Wed 15 Aug 2018 10:18 PM
Galahad wrote: ↑
Wed 15 Aug 2018 7:01 PM
Despite all the things we have done to ease up the PvE grind (if you can even call it that), PvE is still part of the "classic" setting we are emulating here . If that is not for you, or if you are unable to enjoy the game without having the best of the bestest items, that's ok - but maybe this server is not for you then. As others have said, getting these items that you deem to be so indispensable, is significantly easier here then it would have been in 2003 (or on the server that shall not be named^^). Basically, that is the best we can and/or will do at this point. We have always said that we want to create a server that brings back "classic" DAoC in a way that allows it to fit into the life of an adult with family and job. But that doesn't not mean that we will entirely trivialize such things as itemization. Just as an reminder, but Si was entirely a PvE expansion - and to a large extent that is also true for ToA. So saying that DAoC is purely an RvR game is more a reflection of your personal preference than actual fact.

Taking a page out of the Uthgard server I see.

"if you dont like it, then leave"

Make sure thats on the main page of your website as the slogan if your going to use it as a rebuttal when someone comes along and gives feedback about a particular subject. Again, just so people like myself understand that you have no intentions of running a real RvR server. Just some glorified PvE feather farming server. I will make sure when people ask me about this server to tell them you share the same thoughts and opinions as the Uthgard devs when it comes to receiving feedback.

I love the people in 8 mans who come here and say,

"ALL YOU NEED IS ROG GEAR!"

Meanwhile they have 6+ feather items on. But only TWO are needed right?! So now I have to sit around for hours looking for a feather group just to compete in RvR?

No one has answered the main question:

WHY CANT I EARN FEATHERS IN RVR!?

As it stands this system only caters to the elitist few who have guilds since 2004. The average guy is fucked. So I guess enjoy a server with 4 teams of 8 mans running around after a month or two. Because thats all you will get with this PVE server. Cant wait until the same people saying its fine realize they have no targets but the same two 8 mans because everyone is feather farming in some dungeon.

Pretty interesting point of view for someone who doesnt have a single toon on his account aka havent played a single minute on this server yet.

Thu 16 Aug 2018 9:46 AM by Chaskha

relvinian wrote: ↑
Thu 16 Aug 2018 12:28 AM
The original post expressed a point of view which may not be shared by everyone but it is someone's view.
I think most people just want fun. I think there should be some way for casual players or solo players to compete without spending a full time job gearing up.

They have the eggs for leveling, ROGs for templating and money to buy the necessary to be fully temped at 50.
You have the same discourse as you had on Uthgard forums. Do you think Phoenix requires a full time job to gear up? Really ?

relvinian wrote: ↑
Thu 16 Aug 2018 12:28 AM
I prefer not to craft and I prefer not to group. Right now my /played at lvl 23 is like 18 hours.
I'm paying for it. BUT, what about other people who don't want to craft/make alts/farm, etc. Do you want them to play or not?

Since you ask: no.
Personally, I don't want that mentality on DAoC. I do understand people having a family and not being able, most of the time, to commit to a group because it means a lot of AFK to will impair the group *but* people not wanting to group by preference are IMHO not in the spirit of a MMO, especially not DAoC which has always pushed people to interact and group to achieve better. They are welcome but I do not think they deserve a ramp access, a shiny hat and a free cigar to let them know how thrilled we are to see them barely interact with us.

relvinian wrote: ↑
Thu 16 Aug 2018 12:28 AM
Some people want high end pve and some want crafting and some want 8 man and some want solo.
You get the point. But the more inclusive the server is, the more people can play the game the way they want.

I would take, anyday, a server where 80% are happy and 20% complain endlessly rather than a server trying too hard to suck up to every whiner in the name of inclusion. Whining is a choice, it's not as being born ugly.

This server has done amazing accommodations for all styles of play and yet people are coming to complain with posts smelling entitlement. Do they come with an idea of improvement to support what they think? NO... They just come to tell "what's wrong to them".

I have only one thing to say to the staff, your patience is amazing, really ! You do a really good job and you not giving the finger to some players just got my admiration.

Thu 16 Aug 2018 9:48 AM by Jaegaer

I got to RR10 on old DAoC shortly before the realse of ToA. I did not use a sinlge drop piece from any of the bosses as equip.

Not A Single One. Armor and Weapons were crafted, rest was quest gear filled up with a few normal Drops.

So if I understand the feather system right (gives you access to boss drops if you killed that Boss at least once) I would need zero of these?

Thu 16 Aug 2018 10:15 AM by Galahad

The "feather" items are simply the loot that drops from the higher-end PvE encounters. Rather than making people do 20 raids to eventually get a drop they need/want, we introduced feathers as a participation token that will allow you to save up for a specific item. You will still have to participate in raids (although it doesn't matter which one, once you have the encounter for the mob that drops your loot), but the path to the item is obviously much shortened and no longer /random 100. We estimate 1-2 full galla/tuscar/sidi raids should be enough to get you a specific item. And that is part of the game and will stay.

Whether you need to have that loot is entirely in the eye of the beholder. And clearly, there is a very reasonable path to get it.

It is also important to keep in mind that the main reason why some people are running around like fully lit christmas trees on fire is because feather encounters were initially way too easy; some were even exploited. That has since changed.

Thu 16 Aug 2018 12:02 PM by relvinian

You don't want people who like to solo and don't want to craft to play on the server?

Sorry, couldn't quote wall of text.

Anyways if the guy never played as uthred said, that puts things in a whole nother light.

I like to solo and don't want to craft.

I may craft a little. I may group a little. Who knows. But who are you to say to get rid of those people who like to solo and don't like to craft?

Thu 16 Aug 2018 12:07 PM by heardstheword

Terrorsauce wrote: ↑
Wed 15 Aug 2018 10:18 PM
As it stands this system only caters to the elitist few who have guilds since 2004. The average guy is fucked. So I guess enjoy a server with 4 teams of 8 mans running around after a month or two. Because thats all you will get with this PVE server. Cant wait until the same people saying its fine realize they have no targets but the same two 8 mans because everyone is feather farming in some dungeon.

Every raid/feather I've been in has been a public one that was searched in /LFG.

Trollheim, TG, Dragon, Summoner's Hall, etc.

Maybe I've just been lucky, but I've had no issues getting into these. Make sure you spam lfg for feathers. Sometimes you have 8 people LFG for feathers, and you just need that one person to start the group.

Thu 16 Aug 2018 12:15 PM by Druth

If RvR becomes afully viable way of getting feathers, people who are set would stop doing raids and only RvR.

New players would then have two options:

1) Go out and RvR vs people with better gear and higher RR.
2) Not RvR ever...

And it's not good enough to just do feather groups, because you need BG credit on one char to buy CS/TG/Galla gear.

No feathers in RvR means even set groups will join in the big raids, because the feather reward will keep them set for at least a week.

Thu 16 Aug 2018 12:26 PM by Sanglante

Yeah yeah 15K feather here. can't use them cause i will nerver have time to play 3 h for a TG raid...

Thu 16 Aug 2018 12:38 PM by Jaegaer

Druth wrote: ↑
Thu 16 Aug 2018 12:15 PM
1) Go out and RvR vs people with better gear and higher RR.
2) Not RvR ever...

3. RvR with your craft gear and be 99% as efficient?

The hyperbole is real. Seriously, feathers are nothing but a nice Little extra but hardly needed to do well.

relvinian wrote: You don't want people who like to solo and don't want to craft to play on the server?

"Hey guys, I only want to use like 20% of all the features of this game casually but still want to be EAXCTLY 100% be as effective as someone who goes out of their way to use all the Features and takes the time and effort to form a community and relationships ingame."

Sounds stupid to you too? Probably because it is.

Thu 16 Aug 2018 12:50 PM by Druth

Jaegaer wrote: ↑
Thu 16 Aug 2018 12:38 PM
3. RvR with your craft gear and be 99% as efficient?

The hyperbole is real. Seriously, feathers are nothing but a nice Little extra but hardly needed to do well.

Obviously.
My post was directed at people who wants to RvR and not do PvE, which means they also think feathers must be vital to RvR, and so should understand that the same would aply to new people. My point being, that making feathers drop as a steady income in RvR (PvP and not keeptakes), would make the entry to RvR for newcomers even harder than it is now, as they'd face both higher RR but also better gear.

Thu 16 Aug 2018 1:03 PM by relvinian

""Hey guys, I only want to use like 20% of all the features of this game casually but still want to be EAXCTLY 100% be as effective as someone who goes out of their way to use all the Features and takes the time and effort to form a community and relationships ingame."

Sounds stupid to you too? Probably because it is."

Seems a bit extreme. I don't recall saying that.

If using all the features means making an alt to farm feathers, making a crafter, farming feathers, etc? Having the best gear and then competing that way?

Well of course that is fine. But not everyone wants to do that in order to have fun in pvp. I believe that is the gist of the discussion which I am continuing here?

The OP, if uthred says not a player that's a whole nother issue. But just the point of having to pve to pvp is something worth discussing.

I myself will probably not group much, what can I say im a loner and also I have a disabled kid at home part time and have to log at a moments notice?

Doesn't mean I don't ask for group but I don't have time to make one move to location play all day etc. There are times I can play but there times I can't.

Also I'm lazy. You don't want lazy people playing a game which is supposed to be fun?

If you lose the antisocial lazy people from a game you might have a numbers issue.

Thu 16 Aug 2018 1:41 PM by Druth

Sanglante wrote: ↑
Thu 16 Aug 2018 12:26 PM
Yeah yeah 15K feather here. can't use them cause i will nerver have time to play 3 h for a TG raid...

Feel your pain, almost a week in Albion and not seen a single Caer Sidi raid being announced.
Hibs did Galla almost every day.

Edit: Btw, due to slow respawn, you should be able to get to the BG and get credit where you need. I think...

Thu 16 Aug 2018 2:20 PM by Jaegaer

relvinian wrote: ↑
Thu 16 Aug 2018 1:03 PM
Also I'm lazy. You don't want lazy people playing a game which is supposed to be fun?

If you lose the antisocial lazy people from a game you might have a numbers issue.

Yes, personally I do not want lazy antisocial people to have the same potential success as able/capable/caring social people because such a game would be stupid and better off as a single player game anyways.

Wether this makes the game unfun for you is your own decision. What you are trying to do is to externalise fault: "Do you really want me to not enjoy the game because it doesn't meet my standards?" So other people are now at fault if you are unable to enjoy this game?

Finally, if the game does not succeed at a group/realm RvR Level it will not succed at all. And that is because traditionally solo players that don't want to do PvE and don't want to craft and don't want to be part of the community to find groups will leave the game anyways rather sooner than later.

Thu 16 Aug 2018 2:44 PM by relvinian

"Yes, personally I do not want lazy antisocial people to have the same potential success as able/capable/caring social people because such a game would be stupid and better off as a single player game anyways."

**** Straw man
A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument which was not advanced by that opponent. ****

I never said same potential success.

I said have fun and play because they are having fun (essentially)

Thu 16 Aug 2018 4:26 PM by daocgod

Edited your post. If you want to discuss then do it in a resonable way. Insulting people will not be tolerated. Greetings, Uthred.

Thu 16 Aug 2018 5:01 PM by Quik

daocgod wrote: ↑
Thu 16 Aug 2018 4:26 PM
*** Edited ***

Then buy blue endo pots maybe? You don't need the best of everything when blue gets you almost he same.

Thu 16 Aug 2018 5:10 PM by phixion

Most players have always made do with blue endo, yellow is a luxury.

Thu 16 Aug 2018 6:03 PM by heardstheword

You can only craft up to blue pots anyways.

Expensive pots are just blue pots with more charges. None of the regen stuff goes above 3 (end/pow)

Thu 16 Aug 2018 6:56 PM by Magesty

daocgod wrote: ↑
Thu 16 Aug 2018 4:26 PM
Edited your post. If you want to discuss then do it in a resonable way. Insulting people will not be tolerated. Greetings, Uthred.

Too good. Removed a long-winded post where you were whining about something that didn’t even matter.

For those that wont get a chance to see he was basically saying:

>Yellow end pots are necessary to compete. They are on housing for 800g! Only garbage role players have the time to farm the feathers for them. Feathers should be able to be farmed with 5 people<

Then you try to act high and mighty by calling out a mod... for... I’m not sure exactly? As if your posts aren’t consistently toxic and insulting, daocgod. I’ve seen you refer to crafters as “Shlomo Shekelsteins”... Beginning to think you are just a troll.

Thu 16 Aug 2018 7:39 PM by Terrorsauce

Uthred wrote: ↑
Thu 16 Aug 2018 9:37 AM
Terrorsauce wrote: ↑
Wed 15 Aug 2018 10:18 PM
Galahad wrote: ↑
Wed 15 Aug 2018 7:01 PM
Despite all the things we have done to ease up the PvE grind (if you can even call it that), PvE is still part of the "classic" setting we are emulating here . If that is not for you, or if you are unable to enjoy the game without having the best of the bestest items, that's ok - but maybe this server is not for you then. As others have said, getting these items that you deem to be so indispensable, is significantly easier here then it would have been in 2003 (or on the server that shall not be named^^). Basically, that is the best we can and/or will do at this point. We have always said that we want to create a server that brings back "classic" DAoC in a way that allows it to fit into the life of an adult with family and job. But that doesn't not mean that we will entirely trivialize such things as itemization. Just as an reminder, but Si was entirely a PvE expansion - and to a large extent that is also true for ToA. So saying that DAoC is purely an RvR game is more a reflection of your personal preference than actual fact.

Taking a page out of the Uthgard server I see.

"if you dont like it, then leave"

Make sure thats on the main page of your website as the slogan if your going to use it as a rebuttal when someone comes along and gives feedback about a particular subject. Again, just so people like myself understand that you have no intentions of running a real RvR server. Just some glorified PvE feather farming server. I will make sure when people ask me about this server to tell them you share the same thoughts and opinions as the Uthgard devs when it comes to receiving feedback.

I love the people in 8 mans who come here and say,

"ALL YOU NEED IS ROG GEAR!"

Meanwhile they have 6+ feather items on. But only TWO are needed right?! So now I have to sit around for hours looking for a feather group just to compete in RvR?

No one has answered the main question:

WHY CANT I EARN FEATHERS IN RVR!?

As it stands this system only caters to the elitist few who have guilds since 2004. The average guy is fucked. So I guess enjoy a server with 4 teams of 8 mans running around after a month or two. Because thats all you will get with this PVE server. Cant wait until the same people saying its fine realize they have no targets but the same two 8 mans because everyone is feather farming in some dungeon.

Pretty interesting point of view for someone who doesnt have a single toon on his account aka havent played a single minute on this server yet.

This is obviously just a forum account. I have already experienced GM abuse while PvPing here, and would expect no different on the forums when I share an opinion a dev is on the other end of. You confirmed this by looking into this account to see what toons are on it.

I think its pretty clear where this server stands. All the arguments against my suggestion just come from the power DaoC emu gamers with guilds who have been around for ever. They get to farm the easy feathers and get ahead with PvE in RvR.

I love how the Potion guys comment was deleted in full. Could have just removed the insults. He made a damning argument against this feather system as it stands. Which is why no doubt it was censored. Why is it ok for people who are on your side of the argument to spew insults and it be fine? This whole post is full of them.

Uthgard 2.0

Still have yet to have my one question answered:

Why cant I earn Feathers in RvR?

Thu 16 Aug 2018 7:52 PM by Galahad

The comment was censored because it was demonstrably nonsense and inflammatory. And feathers are a "raid token" to make PvE less random. But we are not going to cut out PvE entirely because some people want us to. It's part of the game and it will stay that way.

At this point, I think this thread has run its course so I am closing it. I think most people "get" what we are doing here.

Thu 16 Aug 2018 8:01 PM by

Uthred

If any GM abused his powers, feel free to PM me.
Please stop spreading lies, there is no censorship if you stick to the rules.
Lw 1 + Tireless 1 + (blue) endu 3 pot = permasprint. So there is absolutly no need to use endu 4 pots.
Here is a screenshot from the market explorer in alb. In other realms those endu 3 pots are even cheaper, and for your information, these pots dont need a single feather.
[attachment=0]Unbenannt.JPG[/attachment]
And the answer to your last question: You get feathers (10 per keeplevel) from every keeplord.