Raise the salvage drop rate again.

If you do TG you spend 50 minutes and make 2.5 plat in an hour, but TG is organized during the day in EU, and the player base isn't large enough (anymore, maybe ever) to support an NA one. The idea of nerfing salvage items was to bring down inflation, but I don't see that happening when 2/3s of the pop can still make LOTS of money, more than they could have made salvaging pre-nerf. Essentially all that the salvage nerf did was further the gap between players who can make raids and players who can't.

Furthermore it seems like the nerfs were made to check inflation on hibernia, I don't know about albion but midgards prices were fine, by the end of levelling to 50 you usually had about 3plat which was more than enough to start your temp.

Wed 22 May 2019 4:32 PM by Mura

If you can't do the raid, you can farm feathers and rogs in DS and DF with an 8-man easily enough.

Wed 22 May 2019 4:36 PM by AmpaMicakane

Mura wrote: ↑
Wed 22 May 2019 4:32 PM
If you can't do the raid, you can farm feathers and rogs in DS and DF with an 8-man easily enough.

Why can't we have more viable methods of farming instead of fewer? Maybe some people like soloing or play during times when only about ~100-200 people are on making it difficult to find groups?

Wed 22 May 2019 5:25 PM by frgraham

I agree with OP. Taking away farming from solo players or casual players is not a good idea, NA times we rarely see a epic dungeon raid, if any.

Please considering reverting the salvage drop and solo farm.

Sincerely,

Concerned Fan

Wed 22 May 2019 5:38 PM by kratoxin

AmpaMicakane wrote: ↑
Wed 22 May 2019 4:36 PM
Mura wrote: ↑
Wed 22 May 2019 4:32 PM
If you can't do the raid, you can farm feathers and rogs in DS and DF with an 8-man easily enough.

Why can't we have more viable methods of farming instead of fewer? Maybe some people like soloing or play during times when only about ~100-200 people are on making it difficult to find groups?

This, also some people have children/ other forms of distractions making it difficult to group up to do things. So "Solo" is the way i go when it comes to farming in off times. Revert the drop rate to make solo farming a bit more desirable.

Thu 23 May 2019 2:29 AM by merfp27

This has my vote. The change ruined a whole type of playstyle for people and seems like it was based solely on animists and their ridiculous ability to farm mobs at a rate the other mass farm classes can’t match. Couple that with the larger loot tables on the mobs in SH and you get people pulling in 20p a hour.
The loot tables on the mobs for each realm should have been checked and adjusted, rather than a blanket knee-jerk nerf to the droprate across all three realms.

Thu 23 May 2019 7:35 AM by Sepplord

i get that some people are upset about the change, but this thread has a very serious flaw in it's argumentation, and it's mindboggling it gets so many upvotes just because people favor anyone/anything saying to revert the loot-changes...

Who gets 2plat for doing TG? The lead gets 2plat (more often it'S slightly below 2plat....2,5p is an exxaggeration). That is ONE person in a raid of multiple hundreds of people (otherwise you aren't doing it in 50minutes) and the leader has to distribute loot at the end, so even that single person isn't making 2plats in 50minutes.

People selling feathers doesn't create gold into the economy.

PS: i am not saying everything is fine...but to discuss problems we need to talk about actual issues, and not upvote every single argument, no matter how bad, just because it supports a popular topic

Thu 23 May 2019 2:54 PM by AmpaMicakane

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Thu 23 May 2019 7:35 AM
i get that some people are upset about the change, but this thread has a very serious flaw in it's argumentation, and it's mindboggling it gets so many upvotes just because people favor anyone/anything saying to revert the loot-changes...

Who gets 2plat for doing TG? The lead gets 2plat (more often it'S slightly below 2plat....2,5p is an exxaggeration). That is ONE person in a raid of multiple hundreds of people (otherwise you aren't doing it in 50minutes) and the leader has to distribute loot at the end, so even that single person isn't making 2plats in 50minutes.

People selling feathers doesn't create gold into the economy.

PS: i am not saying everything is fine...but to discuss problems we need to talk about actual issues, and not upvote every single argument, no matter how bad, just because it supports a popular topic

Feathers are a currency and have an exchange rate, one that has stayed stable despite the nerf to solo farming so I thought it was a good anchor point to talk about money in Phoenix. Since you can sell 2 - 2.5 platinum for less than an hour of game time invested TG gives the highest plat per hour of any PvE activity.

I'm not saying solo farming should give you 2.5 plat an hour, and it previously didn't (about 1plat per hour from salvage was what I got). I'm just saying that 100-300gold an hour is too low, and players who can't make TG, or play during a time that supports DS, or just like to solo should be able to at least afford potions and temp pieces with a reasonable investment of time.

If you don't like the TG anchor point I allude to a second, and maybe better one, the amount of platinum people end up with once they reach 50.

Like others alluded to, the nerf was clearly meant to adjust for inflation in hibernia, and maybe it worked, but it definitely hurt more casual players in other realms and I doubt that was it's intention.

I'm not going to break out the "I will quit over this" card, I love what Phoenix has done with DAoC, but as my ratio to "in game activities I do for fun" to "in game activities I do so I can have fun later" get's smaller it becomes harder to justify booting the game up, and I'm sure I'm not alone.

Fri 24 May 2019 5:46 AM by Sepplord

My point is, that while feathers can be sold for gold, they do not generate gold in the economy. Trading funds around between players doesn't change how much gold there is in circulation.
So it doesn't change the economy.

And in my experience, feather prices have gone up, despite gold generation being nerfed (maybe because gold drain through charges was heavily reduced). That contradicts the claim that 2/3 of the playerpopulation does TG regularly/daily.

Fri 24 May 2019 3:34 PM by AmpaMicakane

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Fri 24 May 2019 5:46 AM
My point is, that while feathers can be sold for gold, they do not generate gold in the economy. Trading funds around between players doesn't change how much gold there is in circulation.
So it doesn't change the economy.

And in my experience, feather prices have gone up, despite gold generation being nerfed (maybe because gold drain through charges was heavily reduced). That contradicts the claim that 2/3 of the playerpopulation does TG regularly/daily.

I'm not going to argue economics, if you don't like the feathers example then use the plat at 50 one. My whole point is we need more ways to farm, especially flexible ways.

Fri 24 May 2019 7:57 PM by Jafeeio

I'd like to underline Sepplord's argument because it's something that does not seem very obvious at the start.
Neither feathers nor selling Rog's to other players GENERATE gold for the economy and that's a huge issue in the long run because there are some fixed costs that can not be reduced like armorcrafting, weaponcrafting and alchemy. Every time a chain wearer buys a spellcrafted set at least 4p get deleted from the game in the form of mats, much more if it includes MP pieces with a small profit going to the respective crafters.
With the dramatically increased leveling speed people are just not making enough gold during the leveling process and end up having to farm at 50, something that is really limiting, boring and unfortunate.

I personally craft(ed) for fun and profits, mostly profits. If my customers don't have any gold to spend above the bare minimum over the crafting cost then i'll just not waste my time doing it. Inflation really is the least of the problems because having too much gold in DAoC is not immediately going to ruin anything. No resources are finite, markets can barely be cornered because it's so easy to just find another crafter or level one yourself and every account can only purchase one housing plot.

What's the solution? Bring back a more SI-like gold progression. Players should have AT LEAST 3p when reaching 50 and only need to do the bare minimum of farming to get geared. This does not mean the-best-SC-ever-geared. In order to allow solo players to farm efficiently (something that was done a lot in SI) and let leveling players earn more gold the salvage and sell values of all rog's should be at least tripled.
There will always be some sort of equilibrium between gold/hour that can be farmed and gold/feathers, this should be of very little concern to most players and they should choose whatever activity suits them best at the time but once again, there are fixed costs from crafting that need to be considered first when nerfing farming opportunities.

Sat 25 May 2019 2:08 AM by Numatic

I had a very simple idea. Remove all classic salvage loot(or leave it and just nerf the amount you get based on new guidelines) and increase salvage rates for RoGs based on their utility. It adds RnG to salvaging but doesnt break it (how often do you get 20util RoGs non stop?). As well it would GREATLY increase the amount of farming locations so you wont have 20 people fighting over a few camps.

Sat 25 May 2019 12:44 PM by Bradekes

Keep the old rates but put a cap to the amount you can farm in a day per account

Sun 26 May 2019 11:48 AM by Erok

Maybe just limit animists ability to farm ( and I mean a very slight nerf) and bring back normal rates and all will be well?

Sun 26 May 2019 6:20 PM by Jafeeio

Credit where credit is due

https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=40&p=67015#p67015

- increased coin reward for pve tasks (kill animals, humanoids, in dungeon, in frontier etc.) from 3x coin drop of a mob of your level to 50x. At level 50 this means an from on average 3g30 to on average 55g30

A great change in my opinion that is going to help out levelers and casual farmers (especially slow ones) a lot.

Wed 29 May 2019 10:52 AM by The Maddog

Mura wrote: ↑
Wed 22 May 2019 4:32 PM
If you can't do the raid, you can farm feathers and rogs in DS and DF with an 8-man easily enough.

Not true. It's not "easy enough".

Most certainly can not do a raid if your PC is a 10 year old laptop that only just runs Daoc. This does not effect me personally but it does effect one of my guild mates. Raids are just not an option for him which screws him over.

But according to you we have DF or DS. Well...we cant farm feathers in DF if our realm does not own it and we can't farm DS as a small (like really small) group. Even attempting to join others... if you play / only own casters or have not done DS previously then there is a strong chance no groups wants you (at least in Mid). As someone who plays caster classes, I've never once been allowed on a Darkspire raid and I really don't want to roll a melee class to be able to do so.

Now I will admit, I'm in a small guild. There is only 3 of us on at any given time (so no DS) but we're casual players and have been doing this for 18 years. We're not changing now. However we did feel we could farm enough to either craft or buy stuff we needed for templates.

Now we spend more time trying to farm than having fun and quite frankly, getting a lucky invite to a Hulk farming group is boring. For a game that has so much emphasis on PvP, far too much emphasis is on farming now to be able to compete in PvP. It's daunting for players who are more casual.

But I have solution.

Ideally I'd like to see rates returned to what they where, if only for salvaging so I can craft what I need rather than zerg for thousands of feathers.

However, I dont think this will happen so why not re-introduce scale-able instances that came with catacombs /darkness rising (since the entrances are there in dungeons and dotted around the realm now) but have them reward feathers. Obviously make it available to very high levels any maybe even have a time on each instance before you can re-do it but we need better options that this constant zerg raid farming. The whole battlegroup thing is what killed ToA for me as I was never on when they happened back in the day and it's having a negative effect on our guild now.

Eitherway just have a "epic instance dungeon" style thing that can be either done by just a couple of players of any class.

Alternatively give a feather reward for each realm task? Drop the cash reward down and add feathers.

All I know for sure is crafting felt like a viable alternative to constant TG raids but now thats a struggle because I need so much feathers as well and getting the odd invite to a Hulk Raid is is not paying those bills.

Wed 29 May 2019 11:05 AM by Sepplord

you defintely can run raids on a 10year old laptop. Have you tried optimizing/setting from the supportforums? The threads might be a bit buried now, and i don't remember it clearly....but we had someone in guild that always had LD in TG and had completely given up on raiding. Then i pushed him towards those threads and he tried a few things, and suddenly it worked perfectly (well...still low framerates ofcourse, but he could stay ingame and was able to tag mobs)

Ideally I'd like to see rates returned to what they where, if only for salvaging

what do you mean "at least for"??? Afaik that's the only thing that got changed, and not even completely, just the droprate of named salavge items was reduced. Salvaging ROGs and droprates of ROGs wasn't touched.

Wed 29 May 2019 1:22 PM by dbeattie71

merfp27 wrote: ↑
Thu 23 May 2019 2:29 AM
This has my vote. The change ruined a whole type of playstyle for people and seems like it was based solely on animists and their ridiculous ability to farm mobs at a rate the other mass farm classes can’t match. Couple that with the larger loot tables on the mobs in SH and you get people pulling in 20p a hour.
The loot tables on the mobs for each realm should have been checked and adjusted, rather than a blanket knee-jerk nerf to the droprate across all three realms.

I have an Animist, Shaman, and a SM now. Mainly to test farming. And if you’re farming redcaps, a shaman beats an Animist. It’s harder but the amount of mobs that can be killed isn’t close.

Wed 29 May 2019 4:43 PM by merfp27

dbeattie71 wrote: ↑
Wed 29 May 2019 1:22 PM
merfp27 wrote: ↑
Thu 23 May 2019 2:29 AM
This has my vote. The change ruined a whole type of playstyle for people and seems like it was based solely on animists and their ridiculous ability to farm mobs at a rate the other mass farm classes can’t match. Couple that with the larger loot tables on the mobs in SH and you get people pulling in 20p a hour.
The loot tables on the mobs for each realm should have been checked and adjusted, rather than a blanket knee-jerk nerf to the droprate across all three realms.

I have an Animist, Shaman, and a SM now. Mainly to test farming. And if you’re farming redcaps, a shaman beats an Animist. It’s harder but the amount of mobs that can be killed isn’t close.

I’ve tried redcaps. You’re right you can pull a ridiculous amount at a time, but they’ve never dropped a single non-rog in all the times I’ve tried before and after the change. Factor in the higher resist rates and for me they’re just annoying.

Wed 29 May 2019 8:20 PM by dbeattie71

merfp27 wrote: ↑
Wed 29 May 2019 4:43 PM
dbeattie71 wrote: ↑
Wed 29 May 2019 1:22 PM
merfp27 wrote: ↑
Thu 23 May 2019 2:29 AM
This has my vote. The change ruined a whole type of playstyle for people and seems like it was based solely on animists and their ridiculous ability to farm mobs at a rate the other mass farm classes can’t match. Couple that with the larger loot tables on the mobs in SH and you get people pulling in 20p a hour.
The loot tables on the mobs for each realm should have been checked and adjusted, rather than a blanket knee-jerk nerf to the droprate across all three realms.

I have an Animist, Shaman, and a SM now. Mainly to test farming. And if you’re farming redcaps, a shaman beats an Animist. It’s harder but the amount of mobs that can be killed isn’t close.

I’ve tried redcaps. You’re right you can pull a ridiculous amount at a time, but they’ve never dropped a single non-rog in all the times I’ve tried before and after the change. Factor in the higher resist rates and for me they’re just annoying.

Yeah, they’ll never drop non rogs and the margin of error is zero. Mess up on Animist and you might have to kite, mess up pulling redcaps and you insta die. 😂

Mon 3 Jun 2019 9:21 PM by AmpaMicakane

Getting 55gold for task is... fine... but not nearly enough to make farming solo unless you are an animist or a shaman and redcaps are not being camped. (don't know anything about albs).

I ask again, why make changes the reduce the number of viable farming methods? Would love a mod/dev response here it seems like they messed up royally by nerfing everyone when the problem was clearly animists.

Mon 10 Jun 2019 1:44 PM by Aidereh

as my ratio to "in game activities I do for fun" to "in game activities I do so I can have fun later" get's smaller it becomes harder to justify booting the game up, and I'm sure I'm not alone.

I'm right there with you.(playtime down 50+%)

I started a shaman the day this changed. After I farmed axehands with my BD for the last time.
But from what i'm hearing, redcaps are dropping garbage since the jewel crafting changes that lowered the utility of dropped RoGs across the board.

A

Tue 11 Jun 2019 8:18 AM by Sepplord

Aidereh wrote: ↑
Mon 10 Jun 2019 1:44 PM
since the jewel crafting changes that lowered the utility of dropped RoGs across the board

i completely missed that change to ROGs...could you elaborate pls (or link to notes if it was a documented change?)

Sat 15 Jun 2019 7:21 PM by Aidereh

I'm not sure what they changed.
But.
Before that patch, farming axehands, the lvl 51 RoG jewelry drops were 40-60 utility.
After the patch, lvl 51 Rog jewelry drops are mostly 20-40 utility; 50+Utiliy are extremely rare.

Before the patch, farming for about 10 hours, i might get 2-3 items i could sell for 200-500 gold.
After the patch, I get 0 items that I can sell.

Just my opinion, but, i think the Lvl of the Mob should be the minimum utility item it can drop.

A

Mon 17 Jun 2019 4:56 PM by Delegator

Aidereh wrote: ↑
Sat 15 Jun 2019 7:21 PM
I'm not sure what they changed.

What they changed was that they eliminated the drop of the Shimmering Golden Alloy gear from any MOBs below level 55, and made it much more rare on those 55+. Where you used to get several items per hour that would salvage for 15 arcanium, you now get the same number that salvage for 3 arcanium. It was a huge nerf to farming. Apparently it was done primarily because there were MOBs that animists could mass pull and generate gigantic amounts of cash, screwing the Hib economy royally. But there were MOBs in Mid (Axehands) and Alb that had similar drop rates.

So, because one particular class in one particular realm could exploit the drop rate, it was removed for everyone everywhere. And animists can still mass pull whatever the current best farming MOB is, and outpace the other Hib classes in money.

It reminds me of the days in Everquest where they insisted that making you travel everywhere on foot somehow made the game more "epic." Take something people do only because they have to (farming for cash) and make it more unpleasant. Yay! This was the start of what has been a really annoying set of changes that seem calculated to make people leave.

Fri 21 Jun 2019 7:12 PM by The Maddog

Delegator wrote: ↑
Mon 17 Jun 2019 4:56 PM
Aidereh wrote: ↑
Sat 15 Jun 2019 7:21 PM
I'm not sure what they changed.

It reminds me of the days in Everquest where they insisted that making you travel everywhere on foot somehow made the game more "epic." Take something people do only because they have to (farming for cash) and make it more unpleasant. Yay! This was the start of what has been a really annoying set of changes that seem calculated to make people leave.

This.

I don't farm because I specifically want to, I farm because I have to. DAoC might have got RvR going for it but it got a whole lot of things about crafting wrong and the dev's have got it completely wrong on this one.

Ok..so certain classes can farm the hell of of location's. So why should we all have to suffer? If I'm after cash I can just as easy (with the right classes) get a PoC bomb group or a DF Hulk challenge group and make more than I would have done farming Axehands solo anyway.

All the nerf has done is slow down my crafting and caused a significant hike in prices of Arcanium weapons and armour.

Now I'm not saying everything should revert back as that sytem was being abused "but" I think crafters should get a bonus. Maybe add another crafting quest or two that adds bracers or some such that either adds a slightly higher chance for a MP OR allows more salvage per item IF you have LGM status in main stats.

It;s all fun and nice having an artisian title (something I'm 150 points away from due to WC'ing) but perhaps Artisians / LGMs should have a hogher salavage rates than base line trinketers?

Sat 22 Jun 2019 2:03 PM by Gweinyth

Erok wrote: ↑
Sun 26 May 2019 11:48 AM
Maybe just limit animists ability to farm ( and I mean a very slight nerf) and bring back normal rates and all will be well?

There is some misinformation going on here. Animist are not farming gold at a rate any faster than other classes in Mid and Alb. In the case of an in realm issue let's all just worry about our own realms. The constant nerf hib posts are getting old.

Sat 22 Jun 2019 2:21 PM by florin

Gweinyth wrote: ↑
Sat 22 Jun 2019 2:03 PM
Erok wrote: ↑
Sun 26 May 2019 11:48 AM
Maybe just limit animists ability to farm ( and I mean a very slight nerf) and bring back normal rates and all will be well?

There is some misinformation going on here. Animist are not farming gold at a rate any faster than other classes in Mid and Alb. In the case of an in realm issue let's all just worry about our own realms. The constant nerf hib posts are getting old.

Bald face lie - Shame shame shame

Sat 22 Jun 2019 7:04 PM by dstrmberg

Gweinyth wrote: ↑
Sat 22 Jun 2019 2:03 PM
Erok wrote: ↑
Sun 26 May 2019 11:48 AM
Maybe just limit animists ability to farm ( and I mean a very slight nerf) and bring back normal rates and all will be well?

There is some misinformation going on here. Animist are not farming gold at a rate any faster than other classes in Mid and Alb. In the case of an in realm issue let's all just worry about our own realms. The constant nerf hib posts are getting old.

Wat

Sun 23 Jun 2019 12:17 AM by Gweinyth

florin wrote: ↑
Sat 22 Jun 2019 2:21 PM
Gweinyth wrote: ↑
Sat 22 Jun 2019 2:03 PM
Erok wrote: ↑
Sun 26 May 2019 11:48 AM
Maybe just limit animists ability to farm ( and I mean a very slight nerf) and bring back normal rates and all will be well?

There is some misinformation going on here. Animist are not farming gold at a rate any faster than other classes in Mid and Alb. In the case of an in realm issue let's all just worry about our own realms. The constant nerf hib posts are getting old.

Bald face lie - Shame shame shame

Maybe you should check out this post. https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=9798&start=10 No way an animist can solo a whole camp of reds and purples in one pull. So why are there no posts about nerfing a shaman ability to farm?

Mon 24 Jun 2019 9:47 AM by Nunki

Gweinyth wrote: ↑
Sun 23 Jun 2019 12:17 AM
florin wrote: ↑
Sat 22 Jun 2019 2:21 PM
Gweinyth wrote: ↑
Sat 22 Jun 2019 2:03 PM
There is some misinformation going on here. Animist are not farming gold at a rate any faster than other classes in Mid and Alb. In the case of an in realm issue let's all just worry about our own realms. The constant nerf hib posts are getting old.

Bald face lie - Shame shame shame

Maybe you should check out this post. https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=9798&start=10 No way an animist can solo a whole camp of reds and purples in one pull. So why are there no posts about nerfing a shaman ability to farm?

So wait.

You compare single pulls and not gold/hour or xp/hour?

You ignore entirely that a pull can take several minutes (before even throwing the first ae-dot), has a high chance to insta wipe if you are unconcentrated for one second and also takes several minutes of downtime afterwards. All of that literally works on one type of mob (efficiently) which is overcamped most of the time?

For sure.

Mon 24 Jun 2019 9:48 AM by Sepplord

Nunki wrote: ↑
Mon 24 Jun 2019 9:47 AM
Gweinyth wrote: ↑
Sun 23 Jun 2019 12:17 AM
florin wrote: ↑
Sat 22 Jun 2019 2:21 PM
Bald face lie - Shame shame shame

Maybe you should check out this post. https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=9798&start=10 No way an animist can solo a whole camp of reds and purples in one pull. So why are there no posts about nerfing a shaman ability to farm?

So wait.

You compare single pulls and not gold/hour or xp/hour?

You ignore entirely that a pull can take several minutes (before even throwing the first ae-dot), has a high chance to insta wipe if you are unconcentrated for one second and also takes several minutes of downtime afterwards. All of that literally works on one type of mob (efficiently) which is overcamped most of the time?

For sure.

nono he must be right...it'S why midgard inflation is so high and in hibernia noone has plats at all....

Mon 24 Jun 2019 12:30 PM by Gweinyth

Nunki wrote: ↑
Mon 24 Jun 2019 9:47 AM
Gweinyth wrote: ↑
Sun 23 Jun 2019 12:17 AM
florin wrote: ↑
Sat 22 Jun 2019 2:21 PM
Bald face lie - Shame shame shame

Maybe you should check out this post. https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=9798&start=10 No way an animist can solo a whole camp of reds and purples in one pull. So why are there no posts about nerfing a shaman ability to farm?

So wait.

You compare single pulls and not gold/hour or xp/hour?

You ignore entirely that a pull can take several minutes (before even throwing the first ae-dot), has a high chance to insta wipe if you are unconcentrated for one second and also takes several minutes of downtime afterwards. All of that literally works on one type of mob (efficiently) which is overcamped most of the time?

For sure.

Let me restate my main point. Why are mids concerned with what happens in the hib economy? More gold doesn't mean they have better gear. Every realm has the ability to have the same temp'd characters. In Hib it costs gold because of the demand for feathers which drives the cost up. In Mid and Alb there are other things in demand. What happens in the Hib economy does not directly effect the other realms so I don't understand why others outside of Hib are worried about it.

Mon 24 Jun 2019 12:34 PM by florin

Gweinyth wrote: ↑
Mon 24 Jun 2019 12:30 PM
Nunki wrote: ↑
Mon 24 Jun 2019 9:47 AM
Gweinyth wrote: ↑
Sun 23 Jun 2019 12:17 AM
Maybe you should check out this post. https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=9798&start=10 No way an animist can solo a whole camp of reds and purples in one pull. So why are there no posts about nerfing a shaman ability to farm?

So wait.

You compare single pulls and not gold/hour or xp/hour?

You ignore entirely that a pull can take several minutes (before even throwing the first ae-dot), has a high chance to insta wipe if you are unconcentrated for one second and also takes several minutes of downtime afterwards. All of that literally works on one type of mob (efficiently) which is overcamped most of the time?

For sure.

Let me restate my main point. Why are mids concerned with what happens in the hib economy? More gold doesn't mean they have better gear. Every realm has the ability to have the same temp'd characters. In Hib it costs gold because of the demand for feathers which drives the cost up. In Mid and Alb there are other things in demand. What happens in the Hib economy does not directly effect the other realms so I don't understand why others outside of Hib are worried about it.

Cause you don’t get to dictate what we are concerned about.period. Full stop.

And a broken hib economy affects all the realms. Do you need me to explain it?

Mon 24 Jun 2019 12:58 PM by Nunki

Gweinyth wrote: ↑
Mon 24 Jun 2019 12:30 PM
Nunki wrote: ↑
Mon 24 Jun 2019 9:47 AM
Gweinyth wrote: ↑
Sun 23 Jun 2019 12:17 AM
Maybe you should check out this post. https://forum.playphoenix.online/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=9798&start=10 No way an animist can solo a whole camp of reds and purples in one pull. So why are there no posts about nerfing a shaman ability to farm?

So wait.

You compare single pulls and not gold/hour or xp/hour?

You ignore entirely that a pull can take several minutes (before even throwing the first ae-dot), has a high chance to insta wipe if you are unconcentrated for one second and also takes several minutes of downtime afterwards. All of that literally works on one type of mob (efficiently) which is overcamped most of the time?

For sure.

Let me restate my main point. Why are mids concerned with what happens in the hib economy? More gold doesn't mean they have better gear. Every realm has the ability to have the same temp'd characters. In Hib it costs gold because of the demand for feathers which drives the cost up. In Mid and Alb there are other things in demand.

To be honest, I have no clue as to how unequal the farming situation is. I never played Hib or Alb on Phoenix and I never requested any changes explicitely against Hibernia, beneath first and second LOS checks for caster pets in general (which would mostly affect Hibernia).
I know that there is a problem in general concerning Feather farming for fresh unSCd players (in Mid) but that is not the discussion here.

Just to be sure, do you really need an explanation as to how unequalities concerning the possibilites to farm:
- XP
- Gold
- Feathers
- ROGs

have an effect on the population balance and long term healthiness of this Server?

And shouldn't every player be interested in a long term healthiness of this Server even if some changes go against their "own" realm?

What happens in the Hib economy does not directly effect the other realms so I don't understand why others outside of Hib are worried about it.

To correct your statement.
The economy of any realm has an effect on any other realm and unimportant which realm I play, I am interested in balanced realm populations.

Wed 3 Jul 2019 8:57 AM by Blackiez

The Maddog wrote: ↑
Wed 29 May 2019 10:52 AM
However, I dont think this will happen so why not re-introduce scale-able instances that came with catacombs /darkness rising (since the entrances are there in dungeons and dotted around the realm now) but have them reward feathers. Obviously make it available to very high levels any maybe even have a time on each instance before you can re-do it but we need better options that this constant zerg raid farming. The whole battlegroup thing is what killed ToA for me as I was never on when they happened back in the day and it's having a negative effect on our guild now.

Eitherway just have a "epic instance dungeon" style thing that can be either done by just a couple of players of any class.

Should make an separated post about instance with fewer people. (scale-able)
Would not generate as much feathers but still exist and be doable. And you could log in and have a good time with some friends and not needed to log in and :/lfg looking for DS run: for hour's and resulting you log and loose interest of the game.

The mechanics is already in the game. Would not be that hard to introduce. And the devs here is more competent then live servers....

Sat 27 Jul 2019 10:25 PM by paqdizzle

AmpaMicakane wrote: ↑
Wed 22 May 2019 4:36 PM
Mura wrote: ↑
Wed 22 May 2019 4:32 PM
If you can't do the raid, you can farm feathers and rogs in DS and DF with an 8-man easily enough.

Why can't we have more viable methods of farming instead of fewer? Maybe some people like soloing or play during times when only about ~100-200 people are on making it difficult to find groups?

Thank you!

Sat 27 Jul 2019 10:28 PM by ExcretusMaximus

Raising the salvage rate raises the money in the game which raises the cost of everything which raises the need for more money.

It's basic economics.

The rate doesn't need to rise.

Sun 28 Jul 2019 12:24 AM by Moid

ExcretusMaximus wrote: ↑
Sat 27 Jul 2019 10:28 PM
Raising the salvage rate raises the money in the game which raises the cost of everything which raises the need for more money.

It's basic economics.

The rate doesn't need to rise.

Sorry but you obviously don’t understand economics. DAoC doesn’t have an even remotely realistic economy. What you posted is only true for economic interactions exclusively between players. Most of the economy in DAoC is static. Anyone who has ever crafted in DAoC knows this as does anyone who interacted with an NPC merchant.

Crafting requires raw materials or gold or some combination. When you nerf the salvage rate you make skilling up and production more expensive. Crafting on Phoenix isn’t equivalent to what it is on live, in fact crafting on Phoenix is more time consuming and expensive particularly now.

What does that mean? Fewer MP and 99 quality player crafted items. Fewer new players skilling trade skills. More difficulty templating. More impediments for new players to overcome to become competitive. More demand on existing crafters as people leave the server and new players abandoning the idea of crafting due to excessive time constraints.

And that only applies to trade skills not named Alchemy and Spellcrafting. Alchemy and Spellcrafting require pure gold for skilling and production.

So the end result is:

1 - players will spend more time in PvE to feed the need to supply gold and materials for crafting
2 - players will go without player crafted gear more frequently and thus run with inferior templates

For a game that supposedly fills a PvP niche that doesn’t bode well.

Sun 28 Jul 2019 2:18 PM by nicolas

For my part i don t understand this obssession to have an increase of salvage drop. As an hib player who started two weeks after nerf salvage, i havn t get any issue by leveling my chars to 50. At this time i have rolled first an animist that took me arround 28hours to 50. 1 week and half of play time. Then mastered salvage skills spent arround two more weeks in sheeroe after nerf wich granted me enough money and feather by runing ds to get level other chars and getting them temped. 3 month later i am sitting on a 4l5 anim 10 plats fully temped, a 4l6 druid fully temped 15 plats, a 3l6 menty fully temped 8p, a 4l3 eldy fully temped 7p, a 5l9 champ fully weaponless temped 65p wich i am working to improve temp to all maxed out shield/weapons passive because i am missing 35 dext without shield while swaping to lw 1con point and 1 percent heat wich piss me off. After that i still sit on 100k+ feather and 150 plats in 3 month and half after starting on phoenix by playing 2/3 hour max per day when i am not logging there three days in a row like now. Is it bad ? Dont forget that this is a mmorpg and daoc is focused on time as rr gained that you pull in. As a casual this has been the fastest experience that i have earned in daoc after 9 years playing on mordred till 2009 2010. So stop whining play the game and have fun. Thanks to phoenix staff for all the improvement and invest that you have put in this server. So far my best experienced game in daoc since daoc live started to be fucked up, great balance on everything. Just have fun and say thanks for one time in your life for a pleasure that have been given to you by benevols. Maybe the last time you will play daoc as original forms. Please shut up and play the game as it is given to you. Thanks to devs

Sun 28 Jul 2019 2:21 PM by gotwqqd

nicolas wrote: ↑
Sun 28 Jul 2019 2:18 PM
For my part i don t understand this obssession to have an increase of salvage drop. As an hib player who started two weeks after nerf salvage, i havn t get any issue by leveling my chars to 50. At this time i have rolled first an animist that took me arround 28hours to 50. 1 week and half of play time. Then mastered salvage skills spent arround two more weeks in sheeroe after nerf wich granted me enough money and fether by runing ds to get level other chars and getting them temped. 3 month latet i am sitting on a 4l5 anim 10 plats fully temped, a 4l6 druid fully temped 15 plats, a 3l6 menty fully temped 8p, a 4l3 eldy fully temped 7p, a 5l9 champ fully weaponless temped 65p wich i am working to improve temp to all maxed out shield/weapons passive because i am missing 35 dext without shield while swaping to lw 1con point and 1 percent heat wich piss me off. After that i still sit on 100k+ feather and 150 plats in 3 month and half after starting on phoenix by playing 2/3 hour max per day when i am not logging there three days in a row like now. Is it bad ? Dont forget that this is a mmorpg and daoc is focused on time as rr gained that you pull in. As a casual this has been the fastest experience that i have earned in daoc after 9 years playing in mordred till 2009 2010. So stop whining play the game and have fun. Thanks to phoenix staff for all the improvement and invest that you have put in this server. So far my best experienced game in daoc since daoc great balance on everything. Just have fun and say thanks for one time in your life for a pleasure that have been given to you by benevols. Maybe tye last time you will play daoc as original forms. Please shut up and play the game as it is given to you. Thanks to devs

The “obsession” is higher drop rates leads to more salvage leads to more trinkets leads to more gold leads to funding crafting skill leveling leads to self sufficient for alts leads to more rvr fun.

Sun 28 Jul 2019 2:26 PM by florin

nicolas wrote: ↑
Sun 28 Jul 2019 2:18 PM
For my part i don t understand this obssession to have an increase of salvage drop. As an hib player who started two weeks after nerf salvage, i havn t get any issue by leveling my chars to 50. At this time i have rolled first an animist that took me arround 28hours to 50. 1 week and half of play time. Then mastered salvage skills spent arround two more weeks in sheeroe after nerf wich granted me enough money and fether by runing ds to get level other chars and getting them temped. 3 month latet i am sitting on a 4l5 anim 10 plats fully temped, a 4l6 druid fully temped 15 plats, a 3l6 menty fully temped 8p, a 4l3 eldy fully temped 7p, a 5l9 champ fully weaponless temped 65p wich i am working to improve temp to all maxed out shield/weapons passive because i am missing 35 dext without shield while swaping to lw 1con point and 1 percent heat wich piss me off. After that i still sit on 100k+ feather and 150 plats in 3 month and half after starting on phoenix by playing 2/3 hour max per day when i am not logging there three days in a row like now. Is it bad ? Dont forget that this is a mmorpg and daoc is focused on time as rr gained that you pull in. As a casual this has been the fastest experience that i have earned in daoc after 9 years playing in mordred till 2009 2010. So stop whining play the game and have fun. Thanks to phoenix staff for all the improvement and invest that you have put in this server. So far my best experienced game in daoc since daoc great balance on everything. Just have fun and say thanks for one time in your life for a pleasure that have been given to you by benevols. Maybe tye last time you will play daoc as original forms. Please shut up and play the game as it is given to you. Thanks to devs

Not everyone wants to roll a farming class. The difference is stark e.g. as a necro with a cleric friend we pulled 30p in just 3 hours - each.

Sun 28 Jul 2019 2:31 PM by nicolas

florin wrote: ↑
Sun 28 Jul 2019 2:26 PM
nicolas wrote: ↑
Sun 28 Jul 2019 2:18 PM
For my part i don t understand this obssession to have an increase of salvage drop. As an hib player who started two weeks after nerf salvage, i havn t get any issue by leveling my chars to 50. At this time i have rolled first an animist that took me arround 28hours to 50. 1 week and half of play time. Then mastered salvage skills spent arround two more weeks in sheeroe after nerf wich granted me enough money and fether by runing ds to get level other chars and getting them temped. 3 month latet i am sitting on a 4l5 anim 10 plats fully temped, a 4l6 druid fully temped 15 plats, a 3l6 menty fully temped 8p, a 4l3 eldy fully temped 7p, a 5l9 champ fully weaponless temped 65p wich i am working to improve temp to all maxed out shield/weapons passive because i am missing 35 dext without shield while swaping to lw 1con point and 1 percent heat wich piss me off. After that i still sit on 100k+ feather and 150 plats in 3 month and half after starting on phoenix by playing 2/3 hour max per day when i am not logging there three days in a row like now. Is it bad ? Dont forget that this is a mmorpg and daoc is focused on time as rr gained that you pull in. As a casual this has been the fastest experience that i have earned in daoc after 9 years playing in mordred till 2009 2010. So stop whining play the game and have fun. Thanks to phoenix staff for all the improvement and invest that you have put in this server. So far my best experienced game in daoc since daoc great balance on everything. Just have fun and say thanks for one time in your life for a pleasure that have been given to you by benevols. Maybe tye last time you will play daoc as original forms. Please shut up and play the game as it is given to you. Thanks to devs
Not everyone wants to roll a farming class. The difference is stark e.g. as a necro with a cleric friend we pulled 30p in just 3 hours - each.

That is what i am talking about just roll a farm class this is faoc basics. Takes times i did it and now i am getting rvr fun. Took me me three weeks and now i can switch from char to other char and i havnt any issue with money ig to buy pots.... just lazy poeple whining about this, instant 50s server wouldnt have the success that phoenix have with it s stable population it would failed in 2 months.

Sun 28 Jul 2019 2:36 PM by florin

nicolas wrote: ↑
Sun 28 Jul 2019 2:31 PM
florin wrote: ↑
Sun 28 Jul 2019 2:26 PM
nicolas wrote: ↑
Sun 28 Jul 2019 2:18 PM
For my part i don t understand this obssession to have an increase of salvage drop. As an hib player who started two weeks after nerf salvage, i havn t get any issue by leveling my chars to 50. At this time i have rolled first an animist that took me arround 28hours to 50. 1 week and half of play time. Then mastered salvage skills spent arround two more weeks in sheeroe after nerf wich granted me enough money and fether by runing ds to get level other chars and getting them temped. 3 month latet i am sitting on a 4l5 anim 10 plats fully temped, a 4l6 druid fully temped 15 plats, a 3l6 menty fully temped 8p, a 4l3 eldy fully temped 7p, a 5l9 champ fully weaponless temped 65p wich i am working to improve temp to all maxed out shield/weapons passive because i am missing 35 dext without shield while swaping to lw 1con point and 1 percent heat wich piss me off. After that i still sit on 100k+ feather and 150 plats in 3 month and half after starting on phoenix by playing 2/3 hour max per day when i am not logging there three days in a row like now. Is it bad ? Dont forget that this is a mmorpg and daoc is focused on time as rr gained that you pull in. As a casual this has been the fastest experience that i have earned in daoc after 9 years playing in mordred till 2009 2010. So stop whining play the game and have fun. Thanks to phoenix staff for all the improvement and invest that you have put in this server. So far my best experienced game in daoc since daoc great balance on everything. Just have fun and say thanks for one time in your life for a pleasure that have been given to you by benevols. Maybe tye last time you will play daoc as original forms. Please shut up and play the game as it is given to you. Thanks to devs
Not everyone wants to roll a farming class. The difference is stark e.g. as a necro with a cleric friend we pulled 30p in just 3 hours - each.

That is what i am talking about just roll a farm class this is faoc basics. Takes times i did it and now i am getting rvr fun. Took me me three weeks and now i can switch from char to other char and i havnt any issue with money ig to buy pots.... just lazy poeple whining about this, instant 50s server wouldnt have the success that phoenix have with it s stable population it would failed in 2 months.

I agree - people who invest more time in their characters are likely to stay longer (Barring drastic nerfs, heavy handedness, and game changes of which we have had too many)

I’ve actually made my farming class my main - gold and feathers are a non issue with just doing rvr (as long as alb has a zerg leader)

Mon 29 Jul 2019 8:40 PM by Leandrys

Been farming a bit recently and yes, the droprate is a bit too low, 5% is that it ? Sometimes i didn't have any loot in approx 100 mobs, it doesn't feel absolutely right for a high QoL server, maybe 7 or 8% would be nice.

Mon 6 Apr 2020 10:09 AM by Centenario

I don't have time to farm gold, cause I joined 1 month ago. Still have to level my characters, so I am most of the time sitting at around 10pp, just gaining gold and spending it at gambling or buying pots. I use all the feathers I get to reskin my items. I will never have enough, so thats not a source of money for me.
I never buy any ROG, I prefer to get them myself.
Atm, I have only 1 char templated full for around 3pp. I think I can easily template any character for less than 5pp (if I dont get 100% quality) so there is no need for much farming. The only thing gold is useful for is a house. I would like to have more goldsinks in the game.
To have more uses for farming.

Mon 6 Apr 2020 6:15 PM by Forlornhope

Centenario wrote: ↑
Mon 6 Apr 2020 10:09 AM
I don't have time to farm gold, cause I joined 1 month ago. Still have to level my characters, so I am most of the time sitting at around 10pp, just gaining gold and spending it at gambling or buying pots. I use all the feathers I get to reskin my items. I will never have enough, so thats not a source of money for me.
I never buy any ROG, I prefer to get them myself.
Atm, I have only 1 char templated full for around 3pp. I think I can easily template any character for less than 5pp (if I dont get 100% quality) so there is no need for much farming. The only thing gold is useful for is a house. I would like to have more goldsinks in the game.
To have more uses for farming.

Don't gamble if you're short of cash.. But anyway, to your original point, they seem to have a vendetta against solo farming. I wouldn't hold your breathe that any sort of change/increased drop rate will occur.