Mentalist charm resist calculations (and possibly minstrels?)

Hi the team,

How are resists to charm calculated ? How is power usage calculated ?

I have been doing some testing with my currently level 41 mentalist, but haven't figure out quite a few things :

What DOESN'T influence resist rate :
- spell level : on the same mob, using grey spell (lvl 4) or yellow spell (lvl 33) gives the same % of resists
- master of focus : with or without MoF 3 (+9 levels) -> no difference in resist rate (logical with above finding)
- acuity : with or without +50 acuity buff potion -> no difference in resist rate (just for the sake of testing)

What DOES influence resist rate :
- trained level in charm spec : training from 35+9 to 41+9, decreased the resist rate from 80% to 5% for a level 50 mob (unearthed cave bear)
- mob type (here i am surprised)
* granny near nGed spot - resist rate 56% for level 48 and63% for level 49 and 15% for level 51 !!??
* unearthed cave bears near ailine spot - resist rate 5% for level 50 and 15% for level 51
I also tested if it was because of heat resist (charm spell is given as heat dmg type in phoenix charplan) but i hit with heat DD for 296 (+26), so the low level grannies have no heat resists/even an actual malus to heat

Power cost :
- during testing mana pool decayed much faster on each tick of the yellow spell vs grey spell, without any advantage in counterpart (except more mob types available)

Does it work the same as minstrel's pulse charm ?

Tue 24 Dec 2019 12:09 PM by Azrael

Hey,

afaik it works the same as minstrels charms. Only formula I know is

max safe level to pet = ((totall skill - level) /2 + level) so in most cases for lvl 50 ((50+x skill items+x from RR) - 50)/2 + 50)) . As you found out no Focus or acu influences the resists.
As far as I know you can use your different spell levels for different mob types as a mentalist, so if you charm a specific mob type (dont know which one works for which mob type) you can use a lower spell level to decrease your mana consumption.

Lipsi wrote: * granny near nGed spot - resist rate 56% for level 48 and 63% for level 49 and 15% for level 51 !!??
* unearthed cave bears near ailine spot - resist rate 5% for level 50 and 15% for level 51

I heared this before from some mentalists I grouped with, so sometimes it was easier for them to charm a red pet instead a ora con pet (same mob type). So I guess this is a bug. Never expierienced that on my minstrel, but only getting sages and frostallions which are easy to hold or barguests but never see that behavior there.

PS: Formula above is obviously just some kind of hint which lvls are easy to charm, never saw a exact formula.

Tue 24 Dec 2019 1:55 PM by Lipsi

I would think just the above bug (resist rate for grannies) justifies to dig into the formula to fix it and eventually rework it.

For a mentalist, the power consumption issue isn't neglectable at all, since humanoid charmed with level 4 spell would cost 1 power per tick, vs 7 power per tick using last available spell at level 42, for the same mob, without any change in resist rate.

* It would make sense to have the increased power consumption tradeoff of using higher level spell, somehow giving better charm success rate, either adjust the power cost per tick depend on the mob level and not the spell level (or have it depleting power only when spell is resisted, that way, hard to charm mobs would cost more mana to focus, than easier ones). Right now, a mentalist charming humanoid level 60 with level 4 spell costs 7 times less that charming a humanoid level 1 with level 42 spell.

* It would make sense to include Master of focus somehow in the formula. This is supposed to reduce resist chance to the spell. Here it has no effect because the resistance seems not based on spell level but on trained level in the spec.

Edit : additional tests with +1 skill bonus vs +10 (41+1 and 41+10), and it gives the same resist rate of 63% on level 49 mobs, 5% on level 50 mobs and 15% on level 51 mobs. So the same as before when i tested 41+9 (i hit rr2 since last test round). So this part of formula also seems not to be working.

Thu 2 Apr 2020 9:00 PM by sylvynyr

Lipsi wrote: ↑
Tue 24 Dec 2019 1:55 PM
* It would make sense to include Master of focus somehow in the formula. This is supposed to reduce resist chance to the spell. Here it has no effect because the resistance seems not based on spell level but on trained level in the spec.

It's possible Mastery of Focus only affects the initial cast and not subsequent charm pulses, but this is based on a 2018 Grab Bag and no idea how it's handled on Phoenix. This benefits Minstrels' insta-Charm, but not Mentalists' casted-Charm.

https://darkageofcamelot.com/article/friday-grab-bag-08172018

For both the Minstrel and Mentalist pulse charms, the resistances to the charm pulses after their initial cast are only affected by the level of the character and their composite Instrument or Light specialization values. Having a maximum composite specialization level allows for fewer resistances and allows Minstrels and Mentalists the ability to charm higher level mobs. Charsima and Intelligence have no effect on the pulse charms’ resistance rates.

As an additional note, the Mastery of Focus realm ability also does not affect the resistance rates on the subsequent pulses of the charms but does affect the initial cast on the mob that starts the charm song.

Wed 22 Apr 2020 12:52 PM by Patron

i would support the addition of master of focus to charmpulse

Fri 24 Apr 2020 12:26 AM by daytonchambers

From my limited testing on my mentalist the resist rate is not a linear scale, and your character level is the primary number used when calculating resists.

As a level 50 I have been able to charm, and hold, a lv 37 Siog Raider with only 4+15 Light spec. IT seems low spec is VERY forgiving with the resist rates on Phoenix.

I currently play an odd support build of 33 Light, 42 Mentalism for a fun zerg-surf and gate camping toon. With 33+15 light I can hold a level 48 Gobrochend with only a 1% resist rate. With this spec a level 50 pet has a resist rate of around 24%, and higher than that the resists increase considerably.

Without going into nerd-number territory if the pet level is both at or below both your character level as well as spec level there should be no issues whatsoever with getting under a 5% resist rate.

And yes, the higher level charm spell you use the more power it consumes per tick. So you should always use the lower level spell that is able to charm the particular mob type you are trying to control.

Fri 24 Apr 2020 8:21 AM by gotwqqd

daytonchambers wrote: ↑
Fri 24 Apr 2020 12:26 AM
From my limited testing on my mentalist the resist rate is not a linear scale, and your character level is the primary number used when calculating resists.

As a level 50 I have been able to charm, and hold, a lv 37 Siog Raider with only 4+15 Light spec. IT seems low spec is VERY forgiving with the resist rates on Phoenix.

I currently play an odd support build of 33 Light, 42 Mentalism for a fun zerg-surf and gate camping toon. With 33+15 light I can hold a level 48 Gobrochend with only a 1% resist rate. With this spec a level 50 pet has a resist rate of around 24%, and higher than that the resists increase considerably.

Without going into nerd-number territory if the pet level is both at or below both your character level as well as spec level there should be no issues whatsoever with getting under a 5% resist rate.

And yes, the higher level charm spell you use the more power it consumes per tick. So you should always use the lower level spell that is able to charm the particular mob type you are trying to control.

Was the 4+15 spell level plus 15 or actual spec
Just looking for clarification
As past info says spec +bonus was what was used for rate
Not level
You only used higher level spell for mob type

Sat 25 Apr 2020 11:56 PM by daytonchambers

gotwqqd wrote: ↑
Fri 24 Apr 2020 8:21 AM
Was the 4+15 spell level plus 15 or actual spec
Just looking for clarification
As past info says spec +bonus was what was used for rate
Not level
You only used higher level spell for mob type

it was spec level. 4light 46mana 28mentalism. All skills with +15 from gear and RR5.

so a composite 19spec in light yet I was able to hold a pet at almost double that with no issues.