What's the state of Mastery of Pain?

I've heard that Mastery of Pain got nerfed and a large amount of people have said to ignore it now.

Is that true?

Has everyone abandoned it? Or is it just nerfed a little but still powerful?

Is it still high priority for say, a Savage?

Tue 15 Sep 2020 6:26 PM by Kurbsen

yes it got nerfed, and no dont ignore it. Higher crit chance is still better then a lower one. As of now the highest you can be is 35% crit chance. (25% RA, 10% base).

Tue 15 Sep 2020 7:13 PM by Noashakra

For an off tank, it's still one of the best RA even if it's kind of crap compared to before.
But above lvl 2, it's not worth it at low middle rank. You better go with aug str and MoArms for pure DPS.

Tue 15 Sep 2020 7:49 PM by DinoTriz

Speaking of Aug STR, is it true that the damage increase is minimal, like this guy found?

https://sites.google.com/site/daoctests/home/effects-of-strength-on-damage

Tue 15 Sep 2020 8:06 PM by WildWilbur

DinoTriz wrote: ↑
Tue 15 Sep 2020 7:49 PM
Speaking of Aug STR, is it true that the damage increase is minimal, like this guy found?

https://sites.google.com/site/daoctests/home/effects-of-strength-on-damage

On a SB, it does a little bit more dam. Will post the numbers tomorrow, did the test at work... *cough*

But can anyone verify this:

from what I remember from past tests and Mythic statements, higher weaponskill only affects your chance to not miss, not get past evade/parry/block/etc...

?

Any green sheep maybe?

Tue 15 Sep 2020 9:24 PM by LolaEbola

WildWilbur wrote: ↑
Tue 15 Sep 2020 8:06 PM
DinoTriz wrote: ↑
Tue 15 Sep 2020 7:49 PM
Speaking of Aug STR, is it true that the damage increase is minimal, like this guy found?

https://sites.google.com/site/daoctests/home/effects-of-strength-on-damage

On a SB, it does a little bit more dam. Will post the numbers tomorrow, did the test at work... *cough*

But can anyone verify this:
from what I remember from past tests and Mythic statements, higher weaponskill only affects your chance to not miss, not get past evade/parry/block/etc...
?

Any green sheep maybe?

My thane friend and I did some testing on the weapon skill theory. In our tests, 150 extra weapon skill on the thane correlated to a 1% lower evade chance attacking me.

When I applied weapon skill debuff via poison, it knocked it back a proportional amount.

Tue 15 Sep 2020 9:37 PM by darkstar00

LolaEbola wrote: ↑
Tue 15 Sep 2020 9:24 PM
WildWilbur wrote: ↑
Tue 15 Sep 2020 8:06 PM
DinoTriz wrote: ↑
Tue 15 Sep 2020 7:49 PM
Speaking of Aug STR, is it true that the damage increase is minimal, like this guy found?

https://sites.google.com/site/daoctests/home/effects-of-strength-on-damage

On a SB, it does a little bit more dam. Will post the numbers tomorrow, did the test at work... *cough*

But can anyone verify this:
from what I remember from past tests and Mythic statements, higher weaponskill only affects your chance to not miss, not get past evade/parry/block/etc...
?

Any green sheep maybe?

My thane friend and I did some testing on the weapon skill theory. In our tests, 150 extra weapon skill on the thane correlated to a 1% lower evade chance attacking me.

When I applied weapon skill debuff via poison, it knocked it back a proportional amount.

So Aug Str not really worth it.

Wed 16 Sep 2020 6:28 AM by WildWilbur

darkstar00 wrote: ↑
Tue 15 Sep 2020 9:37 PM
So Aug Str not really worth it.

From my very short test: Valkyn SB 44CS,34Axe, 31LA on the lvl50 test dummy

Achilles/Garotte 109/123 - OH 31
with AugStr 6 (28Str, 15RA points) 115/130 - OH 33

PA chain 348/127/134
with AugStr6 369/134/142

So, no, it's not worth it imo...

Wed 16 Sep 2020 6:47 AM by Sepplord

If you have good alternatives, then MoP isn't worth it anymore, if you don't (for example classes like savage) there really isn't much to spend your points on anyways when you reach certain RRs

The whole MoP-fiasko is a huge shadow on the otherwise pretty decent work the staff is doing, but i still can't wrap my head around why they hardcore pushed through this change despite them not being able to achieve their goal (aka. no nerf to the RA, just a rework) and in the end they simply slapped a huge nerf accross it and left it at that

Wed 16 Sep 2020 7:57 AM by WildWilbur

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Wed 16 Sep 2020 6:47 AM
If you have good alternatives, then MoP isn't worth it anymore, if you don't (for example classes like savage) there really isn't much to spend your points on anyways when you reach certain RRs

The whole MoP-fiasko is a huge shadow on the otherwise pretty decent work the staff is doing, but i still can't wrap my head around why they hardcore pushed through this change despite them not being able to achieve their goal (aka. no nerf to the RA, just a rework) and in the end they simply slapped a huge nerf accross it and left it at that

I think MoP is only worth to spent 7 RA points for MoP4 to almost double the base crit rate, but not more.

Wed 16 Sep 2020 8:43 AM by Valaraukar

Sepplord wrote: ↑
Wed 16 Sep 2020 6:47 AM
If you have good alternatives, then MoP isn't worth it anymore, if you don't (for example classes like savage) there really isn't much to spend your points on anyways when you reach certain RRs

The whole MoP-fiasko is a huge shadow on the otherwise pretty decent work the staff is doing, but i still can't wrap my head around why they hardcore pushed through this change despite them not being able to achieve their goal (aka. no nerf to the RA, just a rework) and in the end they simply slapped a huge nerf accross it and left it at that

I believe that they tried to nerf the crit damage for casters, and the result is that MoP suffered much more from this nerf than WP. For many reasons: first, the average caster damage is much higher here than melee and, secondo, melee toons need to spend ra points in many more ability (determination above all, which is a RA points sinkhole) so now points in MoP feel like quite a waste.
The overall result is that casters can still focus on damage RA, while melees need to focus on defense, which is quite absurd regarding pure melee dps like zerks or savages, with no other utilities rather than dealing a lot of damage with weapons.

Wed 16 Sep 2020 9:45 AM by Noashakra

WildWilbur wrote: ↑
Wed 16 Sep 2020 6:28 AM
darkstar00 wrote: ↑
Tue 15 Sep 2020 9:37 PM
So Aug Str not really worth it.

From my very short test: Valkyn SB 44CS,34Axe, 31LA on the lvl50 test dummy

Achilles/Garotte 109/123 - LA 31
with AugStr 6 (28Str, 15RA points) 115/130 - LA 33

PA chain 348/127/134
with AugStr6 369/134/142

So, no, it's not worth it imo...

Except you don't take into account the off hand.
It's actually quite significant over 10+ swings and mop brings less now in term of dps.

MoArms > Aug str > mop

Wed 16 Sep 2020 9:59 AM by WildWilbur

Noashakra wrote: ↑
Wed 16 Sep 2020 9:45 AM
WildWilbur wrote: ↑
Wed 16 Sep 2020 6:28 AM
darkstar00 wrote: ↑
Tue 15 Sep 2020 9:37 PM
So Aug Str not really worth it.

From my very short test: Valkyn SB 44CS,34Axe, 31LA on the lvl50 test dummy

Achilles/Garotte 109/123 - OH 31
with AugStr 6 (28Str, 15RA points) 115/130 - OH 33

PA chain 348/127/134
with AugStr6 369/134/142

So, no, it's not worth it imo...

Except you don't take into account the off hand.
It's actually quite significant over 10+ swings and mop brings less now in term of dps.

MoArms > Aug str > mop

Ok, my post was unclear, LA meant OH actually, I edited it. The offhand damage changed with AugStr6 from 31 to 33.

Wed 16 Sep 2020 11:54 AM by inoeth

for dex/str weapons its even less usefull to increase stats or lets say double expensive
imo attack speed is king and when you already at 1.5s then you might want to up mop or toughness

for my hunter i figured i usually crit 2x in a fight with mop5, thats about 100dmg for 10 rsp
but you can also get 150 hp for 10 rsp through toughness..... its the better deal imo

also as a 2h user its not going to help you alot to go all the way moarms9 because the difference is only like 50 dm over 10s in comparison to moarms6 but for the cost of 19 rsp....

Wed 16 Sep 2020 12:55 PM by DinoTriz

inoeth wrote: ↑
Wed 16 Sep 2020 11:54 AM
imo attack speed is king and when you already at 1.5s then you might want to up mop or toughness

Question: How do you check when you're reaching speed cap? Do you base it off your unstyled, auto attacks or does the 1.5 cap refer to style swings?

Or do you go based off Quickness cap (250)?

I'd imagine it would be tricky to calculate for a Savage, since they have haste self buff and Midgard has Celerity...

Wed 16 Sep 2020 1:19 PM by gotwqqd

DinoTriz wrote: ↑
Wed 16 Sep 2020 12:55 PM
inoeth wrote: ↑
Wed 16 Sep 2020 11:54 AM
imo attack speed is king and when you already at 1.5s then you might want to up mop or toughness

Question: How do you check when you're reaching speed cap? Do you base it off your unstyled, auto attacks or does the 1.5 cap refer to style swings?

Or do you go based off Quickness cap (250)?

I'd imagine it would be tricky to calculate for a Savage, since they have haste self buff and Midgard has Celerity...

https://forum.playphoenix.online/realm/rvr/6435-phoenix-swing-speed-spreadsheet-calculator

Wed 16 Sep 2020 2:17 PM by Parole

WildWilbur wrote: ↑
Wed 16 Sep 2020 6:28 AM
darkstar00 wrote: ↑
Tue 15 Sep 2020 9:37 PM
So Aug Str not really worth it.

From my very short test: Valkyn SB 44CS,34Axe, 31LA on the lvl50 test dummy

Achilles/Garotte 109/123 - OH 31
with AugStr 6 (28Str, 15RA points) 115/130 - OH 33

PA chain 348/127/134
with AugStr6 369/134/142

So, no, it's not worth it imo...

I think when you coinsider a SB may hit someone 20times in a fight that extra dmg adds up. w/ offhand probably more than 200 dmg extra overall.

Wed 16 Sep 2020 3:56 PM by Noashakra

Parole wrote: ↑
Wed 16 Sep 2020 2:17 PM
WildWilbur wrote: ↑
Wed 16 Sep 2020 6:28 AM
darkstar00 wrote: ↑
Tue 15 Sep 2020 9:37 PM
So Aug Str not really worth it.

From my very short test: Valkyn SB 44CS,34Axe, 31LA on the lvl50 test dummy

Achilles/Garotte 109/123 - OH 31
with AugStr 6 (28Str, 15RA points) 115/130 - OH 33

PA chain 348/127/134
with AugStr6 369/134/142

So, no, it's not worth it imo...

I think when you coinsider a SB may hit someone 20times in a fight that extra dmg adds up. w/ offhand probably more than 200 dmg extra overall.

Yes it's 8/10% of the hp of most targets. Can't wait to have Aug str 7 at the 10L+

Wed 16 Sep 2020 4:42 PM by Cadebrennus

inoeth wrote: ↑
Wed 16 Sep 2020 11:54 AM
for dex/str weapons its even less usefull to increase stats or lets say double expensive
imo attack speed is king and when you already at 1.5s then you might want to up mop or toughness

for my hunter i figured i usually crit 2x in a fight with mop5, thats about 100dmg for 10 rsp
but you can also get 150 hp for 10 rsp through toughness..... its the better deal imo

also as a 2h user its not going to help you alot to go all the way moarms9 because the difference is only like 50 dm over 10s in comparison to moarms6 but for the cost of 19 rsp....

Less useful on it's own for sure, especially in the case of strength, however Dex has lots of other benefits such as + to Archery, Shield, Evade, Block, Parry, and casting speed. I like aug Dex on a Dex/str weapon and on hybrids.

To be fair, what's the estimated +DPS for each level of MoArms?

Wed 23 Sep 2020 8:48 AM by Muse

Mopain is still a thing, but I personally think less than mopain 6/7 its a waste.
My savage has mopain 7 with r8, theres a few things that are nice for grpplay like some aom, purge 2/3 etc.

If you play a zerker I would totally skip it and go into passives like con/toughness/aom or actives like IP, because it still has the 50% critchance on zerkmode without any costs.
Only every 7 minutes but thats literally up every fight and the other ras increase your survivability.