We've formed a random group and we're in Emain. We see a fight between Albs and Hibs. We adden in. What is happening? They both stop fighting and focus on us. We die. Then they emoted us and move away. That behavior should be punished!
Solo RvR with my savage is not possible and RvR with Randoms is not possible .... so what should i do? farming solos and smallmans with a FG ? If you dont punish that behavior, then this server will be a Team vs Team Server. Its not RvR or something. its TvT .....
For the same reason you ARE allowed to jump in on any fight, those you jumped in ARE allowed to stop fighting or gang up on you.
This is not an honorable RvR system. Grey ganking is allowed. Jumping into fights is allowed. Stopping fights is allowed. Not helping and watching others die is allowed.
Why should they be punished because they are playing how they want to play under the rules?
If they're farming each other, it has to be proven. Otherwise, it's RvR. It doesn't matter who you are, where you are, or what you are. If you're out there, you're the enemy. Anyone is game, no matter if you're grey or red. Either way, you're dead. It's DAoC. That's the way it is and the way I've known it to be since 2002.
We've formed a random group and we're in Emain. We see a fight between Albs and Hibs. We adden in. What is happening? They both stop fighting and focus on us. We die. Then they emoted us and move away. That behavior should be punished!
Solo RvR with my savage is not possible and RvR with Randoms is not possible .... so what should i do? farming solos and smallmans with a FG ? If you dont punish that behavior, then this server will be a Team vs Team Server. Its not RvR or something. its TvT .....
It should not be banned. If you jam a fight that's already going and they decide they want to pull off and manage the aggro (you) then they have that right. They took the time to form up 8 people and are probably looking for a good 8v8 fight.
You play your way, and let others play their way. As long as there are no exploits on either side, play on.
And it's not that I don't understand it, when solo if I was doing 1v1, and someone else attacks I will, if possible, change target and attack the adder. I do it both to discourage adding, but also out of respect to the one I am fighting. Why respect enemies? I don't respect the alb/mid I am fighting, but the human sitting somewhere else playing the character, and I want him to return the favour to me another time. Unless... see below.
Where the whole thing collapses is when the 8man groups kill soloers/duos (and soloers add other fights), and when they start complaining that no one comes out to RvR. Because while they run a group of 8 people, that likely has played DaoC a lot, but also know each other, casuals/pugs don't have that luxury. And it's very VERY hard for them to get said experience/group dynamic, when they don't win any fights and people keep logging after fights, forcing them to find replacements and often run gimp setups (1 bard+1 druid for example).
So if you want the DaoC RvR eco-system to thrive, you have to accept to be added by pugs, and not break fight, but instead take the loss and let them get a win.
My philosophy, after 10 years of DaoC honour bound system, is that some fights are simply not fair, and thus I accept being added, and I also add people. Take minstrel/BD/sorc (and more), simply OP 1v1 classes, and so I don't mind adding them. Because 1v1 would not be fair. And so 8man groups should accept being added, being zerged, and not QQ but go out again and see if they can get a better inc and win. Because winning fights is what makes casuals come back out again, us old-timers don't see defeat as something bad, but evaluate what we could have done better in the fight. Casuals (I generalize btw...) only see defeat as defeat, and will often log or go PvE after 2 defeats.
So to end the much to long thread... If us old-timer DaoC players wants the server to succeed, and not have it be just an Arena where your friends log other realm to form a group and fight the same dozen players over and over, we have to swallow pride and accept defeats even from adding/zerging.
Haha, I've always laughed my ass off at some diehard 8man peeps who start talking about honor and respect, but then you see them 8v1 killing a lvl 37 soloer trying to XP. Don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with this, red is dead. But enough with that respect/honor nonsense for 8v8 but then it's all gravy to gang up on a grey soloer or two solos dooking it out. Realm war comes first for me, but war isn't fair. I wish people would immerse back into the game's roots: RealmVRealmVRealm.
On a new server I run small man and watch the eight mans fight. If they start chasing me I let them kill me once and let them suffer for the rest of the week by adding them constantly If they ignore me I ignore them as well. If you add do it with half a brain and pull out if they do. They wont get you since you are faster out of the fight than them if you can read the signs
Yea, nothing really wrong with this. As long as they are not using outside sources like discord to report on your location and direct enemies to you, nothing wrong with a group disengaging from a fight.
We are in a beta though, not really that big of a deal. Everyone has their own flavor on what they think is a fair/right in terms of adding.
For example...
If a enemy group is taking keeps in my home frontier, I will add for realm defense.
If I get killed when solo by a set group, I will add in a fight against them.
If realmates ask me politely not to add on their fights, I will listen.
If I am patrolling an enemy frontier and I notice a 8 v 8 and I know the participants are looking for a fair fight, will respect that and move on.
I will say it is a bit unsavory for a group to pull off when another group of their realmates joins in, especially if it is high RR vs a pug or smallman. It may be perfectly innocent attempt at realm defense or just not understanding what is going on. Better to continue the fight, get your RPs and then politely ask them not to add the next time.
Yea, nothing really wrong with this. As long as they are not using outside sources like discord to report on your location and direct enemies to you, nothing wrong with a group disengaging from a fight.
We are in a beta though, not really that big of a deal. Everyone has their own flavor on what they think is a fair/right in terms of adding.
For example...
If a enemy group is taking keeps in my home frontier, I will add for realm defense.
If I get killed when solo by a set group, I will add in a fight against them.
If realmates ask me politely not to add on their fights, I will listen.
If I am patrolling an enemy frontier and I notice a 8 v 8 and I know the participants are looking for a fair fight, will respect that and move on.
I will say it is a bit unsavory for a group to pull off when another group of their realmates joins in, especially if it is high RR vs a pug or smallman. It may be perfectly innocent attempt at realm defense or just not understanding what is going on. Better to continue the fight, get your RPs and then politely ask them not to add the next time.
Of course the people that have always been on the outside yearning to be included (probably made a thane/wizard/etc) take out their frustration by calling it "rp farming" and going on a crusade to stop it. You think 8 people would willingly take time out of their day to just let the enemy group of 8 kill them?
If I wanted to run a german smallman I would make a battlegroup and advertise. However I don't so if you add and die just learn your lesson and move on.
and RvR with Randoms is not possible .... so what should i do? farming solos and smallmans with a FG ? If you dont punish that behavior, then this server will be a Team vs Team Server. Its not RvR or something. its TvT .....
