Animist Pets Range Check Poll - Phoenix Freeshard

Please vote on this strawpoll and share any opinions. Open to honest discussion about the impact of animist pets, particularly in keep defense.

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7/13 - Editing my 1st post to include my response from later in the thread - so that new people can read the context of my opinion before choosing to vote.
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As far as I am concerned this discussion can serve as a way to judge feelings about whether or not any pet class should have a secondary range check on their pets ranged spells.

Animists just happen to be the ones who can frontload the most damage by use of their autonomous pet. I think in 8v8 and small group, the 15 pet max per 1000 range, per animist is acceptable but I am merely bringing up this discussion with the hopes that people will consider their impact in large scale keep defense.

I know many of us have experienced the sadness associated with animists being able to dominate keep takes because of their ability to place pets inside windows, essentially zoning out defense forces from properly defending the doors.

A group of animists, all sharing the same groundtargets can frontload thousands of damage on a player. If the player steps into range of the animist pets for even one second, but runs away and out of range, the pet will still activate its damage. I think this should be reconsidered. Animists should not be able to have their pet damage follow through when the potential target has actively moved away from their range.

This is my opinion.

Should animist pets have a secondary range check before finalizing their cast?

https://www.strawpoll.me/16070162

Fri 13 Jul 2018 5:02 AM by MacPrior

Eeehm. question is not clear. Or there are two questions while "yes" for question 1 it means "No" for question 2.

Fri 13 Jul 2018 5:06 AM by Aincrad

I voted yes (on the first question about whether or not animist pets should have a secondary range check before finalizing their cast) but my yes vote applies to all pets, not just animist pets.

Fri 13 Jul 2018 5:45 AM by borkbork

I did change the question to be more clear.

Currently no pets have a secondary range check. IE, if they begin a cast and their target moves out of casting range, they will still complete the cast.

Fri 13 Jul 2018 6:08 AM by Prometheus

this poll is very one-sided, of course every alb or mid is going to vote that they would want shrooms to be nerfed, i sure hope they don't take this poll seriously.

Fri 13 Jul 2018 6:35 AM by MacPrior

They are to be nerved on this patch stand! My highest Hib on live server was an Animist and I can tell you, Hibs are strong enough also without or with nerved shrooms.
Cast assists with debuff in different variations, baseline Stun by half of the group, mighty ns, good desease, strong debuffs, high resis and bubble, powerfull melees and strong hybrids, very good heal classes and mezz-demezz classes. Shrooms are too much for this patch.

Fri 13 Jul 2018 7:13 AM by Prometheus

i don't agree with your argument that because shrooms are strong for this patch and that we have good classes already that animists deserve to be singled out and a custom nerf just for shrooms should be made, in my experience shrooms are already very easy countered by anyone with aoe range, mezz, damage... etc.

Fri 13 Jul 2018 7:16 AM by Topenga

As Prometheus stated, there is a counter measure to everything, even to shrooms...ae mezz for example.

Just like that I could ask for a second range check for every caster class...for example wizard boltrange...I'm in range, he starts casting, I make a few steps backwards or into cover and I am out of cast range/LOS but still the bolt hits me...sounds a little bit like that egg and hen discussion

Fri 13 Jul 2018 2:26 PM by Aincrad

Every caster class should already have a second range check as far as I am aware. If that is not the case that is a bug and should be reported in my opinion.

Fri 13 Jul 2018 3:11 PM by Tree

I dont think polls intended to nerf single classes from any realm serve any purpose. If anything we should talk about general mechanics that concern all three realms.
Plus double range checks on fnf turrets would be obsolete anyway, because 50 animists use instant cast fnf turrets.

Fri 13 Jul 2018 3:20 PM by borkbork

As far as I am concerned this discussion can serve as a way to judge feelings about whether or not any pet class should have a secondary range check on their pets ranged spells.

Animists just happen to be the ones who can frontload the most damage by use of their autonomous pet. I think in 8v8 and small group, the 15 pet max per 1000 range, per animist is acceptable but I am merely bringing up this discussion with the hopes that people will consider their impact in large scale keep defense.

I know many of us have experienced the sadness associated with animists being able to dominate keep takes because of their ability to place pets inside windows, essentially zoning out defense forces from properly defending the doors.

A group of animists, all sharing the same groundtargets can frontload thousands of damage on a player. If the player steps into range of the animist pets for even one second, but runs away and out of range, the pet will still activate its damage. I think this should be reconsidered. Animists should not be able to have their pet damage follow through when the potential target has actively moved away from their range.

This is my opinion.

Fri 13 Jul 2018 3:43 PM by Vkejai

Pets in windows can also be mezzed or aoe dotted quite easily .

Fri 13 Jul 2018 3:49 PM by borkbork

Pets in windows can also be mezzed or aoe dotted quite easily .

I see this argument used frequently, but I think it's ingenuine and ignores the reality of the situation. Have you ever been a class who has tried to step up to position to try and mez/dot/aoe the clumps of shrooms that get positioned beneath and around (in windows) while trying to defend an inner keep door? ?

That damage gets frontloaded on you as you step up, more often than not interupting your cast and instead getting you killed by instant thousands of damage. Your healers literally need to be pre-spamming spreadheal just to keep you alive.

Fri 13 Jul 2018 4:14 PM by yestomtom

Aincrad wrote: ↑
Fri 13 Jul 2018 2:26 PM
Every caster class should already have a second range check as far as I am aware. If that is not the case that is a bug and should be reported in my opinion.

This depends entirely on how far he or she has come into the cast animation, this worked as intended and was no bug on live.

Fri 13 Jul 2018 5:03 PM by Tree

Like I said this would not change anything, because Lvl 50 fnf shrooms use INSTANT CAST. You come in range, you get hurt. Period.

Fri 13 Jul 2018 5:17 PM by Isavyr

I should hope by 2018, everyone has played all three realms and isn't choosing their pet realm.

Topenga said:
"every caster class...for example wizard boltrange...I'm in range, he starts casting, I make a few steps backwards or into cover and I am out of cast range/LOS but still the bolt hits me...sounds a little bit like that egg and hen discussion"

This isn't similar at all. A bolt is direct damage but with delayed damage due to travel time. It isn't able to be casted through line of sight. Archers are similar. This is well and good.

One of the big differences between classic and non classic classes is the addition of front-loading huge damage. Classic classes generally widdle there opponent down and can't rely on one-shots.

Warlocks, animists, and (arguably Savages) could do these one-shot drops. I think it's poor gameplay mechanic as failure to counter them is grossly punishing, and unlike the general theme of the game.

In the case of animists, it uniquely causes realms to have to change tactics when considering a charge.

Furthermore, (not sure if bug) animist pets that are casted upon, but resist, still complete their cast. Thus, even the counter of AoE mezz is not fool proof, and can result in a dead Healer/Sorc.

While this is mostly about animists, I don't think any pet class, whether Ruby sim, Necro, Underhill, etc., should be able to finish cast on out of line-of-sight characters. In a game that's hugely built around position (positional styles, AoE damage/duration from focused target, line of sight with doors, windows, crennelations), this mechanic is big departure from normal mechanics.

Furthermore, I'd argue that this is a bad mechanic because it often negates the logical counter that everyone should be able to employ--LoS.

I strongly oppose pets having LoS penetration simply because they started a cast.

Written from mobile. Will rewrite later.

Fri 13 Jul 2018 5:46 PM by Aincrad

Isavyr wrote: ↑
Fri 13 Jul 2018 5:17 PM
I should hope by 2018, everyone has played all three realms and isn't choosing their pet realm.

Topenga said:
"every caster class...for example wizard boltrange...I'm in range, he starts casting, I make a few steps backwards or into cover and I am out of cast range/LOS but still the bolt hits me...sounds a little bit like that egg and hen discussion"

This isn't similar at all. A bolt is direct damage but with delayed damage due to travel time. It isn't able to be casted through line of sight. Archers are similar. This is well and good.

One of the big differences between classic and non classic classes is the addition of front-loading huge damage. Classic classes generally widdle there opponent down and can't rely on one-shots.

Warlocks, animists, and (arguably Savages) could do these one-shot drops. I think it's poor gameplay mechanic as failure to counter them is grossly punishing, and unlike the general theme of the game.

In the case of animists, it uniquely causes realms to have to change tactics when considering a charge.

Furthermore, (not sure if bug) animist pets that are casted upon, but resist, still complete their cast. Thus, even the counter of AoE mezz is not fool proof, and can result in a dead Healer/Sorc.

While this is mostly about animists, I don't think any pet class, whether Ruby sim, Necro, Underhill, etc., should be able to finish cast on out of line-of-sight characters. In a game that's hugely built around position (positional styles, AoE damage/duration from focused target, line of sight with doors, windows, crennelations), this mechanic is big departure from normal mechanics.

Furthermore, I'd argue that this is a bad mechanic because it often negates the logical counter that everyone should be able to employ--LoS.

I strongly oppose pets having LoS penetration simply because they started a cast.

Written from mobile. Will rewrite later.

Yes, I strongly oppose pets having LoS penetration as well.

Fri 13 Jul 2018 8:49 PM by Prometheus

today even on live you will see that all npc/pets will be able to finish their range attacks even if a person running away at bard speed behind cover, there is a reason they haven't fixed it... it's because it's not broken, it's part of the core game mechanics, if it's not broken don't fix it. i think another reason they haven't changed it is because it could lead to alot of abuse by players simply running through all caster/range mobs and avoiding the dangers all together.

Fri 13 Jul 2018 10:05 PM by bamf

You seem to have some deep seeded beef with the animist pets based on discord chat before this post. I am assuming you stepped on a few to many exploding mushroom stacks and ate it.

A secondary range check on a pet class i feel will hurt the other classes such as theirg, enchanter, cabby, etc who have ranged pets because where a player can recognize a player is running away and account for the 1500 range check on a spell, thus forcing them to run closer before casting it. That said, an npc pet is not that intelligent, they typically run to range and immediately start to cast. You could literally walk backwards and never get it if they do a second range check. If the AI was there to account for retreating players, sure, but it isnt and thus removes a part of the game that has been there since 2003. Just do what everyone else who played daoc did before you and learn to play with it

PS: Animists are basically worthless in any setting other then a keep defense or a gate camp.

Fri 13 Jul 2018 10:26 PM by Dabrixmgp

Tree wrote: ↑
Fri 13 Jul 2018 3:11 PM
I dont think polls intended to nerf single classes from any realm serve any purpose. If anything we should talk about general mechanics that concern all three realms.
Plus double range checks on fnf turrets would be obsolete anyway, because 50 animists use instant cast fnf turrets.

so u think a class that makes up 50% of a realm's population is working as intended?

Fri 13 Jul 2018 11:34 PM by Prometheus

Dabrixmgp wrote: ↑
Fri 13 Jul 2018 10:26 PM
so u think a class that makes up 50% of a realm's population is working as intended?

i'll be the first to admit there are bugs, i don't think it's animist specific, resist rates should be higher and damage lower until there are more attackers on the target (this really only applies to high con mobs to you) but in either case this doesn't warrant a 2nd range check.

Sat 14 Jul 2018 12:26 AM by Tree

Are you all blind or do I actually have to repeat myself a third time? LVL 50 shrooms use IIIIIIINSTAAAAAANT CASTS! IIIIIINNNNSTAAAAAANT! Do you know what INSTANT means? Y/N?
Whatever the OPs purpose, it does not actually concern animists AT ALL.

And who says 50% of Hib are animists? Certainly wasnt nowhere true for Uthgard and from what Ive seen there most animists didnt really know how to play their class, so most of you whiners should be pretty safe.

Although speaking of 50% of one realm being one class; any plans for Necros?

Sat 14 Jul 2018 12:37 AM by borkbork

Are you all blind or do I actually have to repeat myself a third time? LVL 50 shrooms use IIIIIIINSTAAAAAANT CASTS! IIIIIINNNNSTAAAAAANT! Do you know what INSTANT means? Y/N?
Whatever the OPs purpose, it does not actually concern animists AT ALL.

And who says 50% of Hib are animists? Certainly wasnt nowhere true for Uthgard and from what Ive seen there most animists didnt really know how to play their class, so most of you whiners should be pretty safe.

Although speaking of 50% of one realm being one class; any plans for Necros?

Okay then, if they are instant cast, should animists be able to stack pets inside windows? Should they be able to place them on ramparts from outside the keep? I understand that this is a functionality that exists on live and on uthgard, but perhaps on this freeshard we can introduce a new way of interpreting these shrooms.

Sat 14 Jul 2018 1:11 AM by Prometheus

tread carefully, if shrooms can't be placed in windows then you also shouldn't be able to set ground targets in windows either for example twf, gtaoe, etc.

Sat 14 Jul 2018 1:15 AM by bamf

I have never had a fight thwarted by animists....i mean, its not hard to counter them. Please just learn to fight

Sat 14 Jul 2018 2:53 AM by Isavyr

bamf wrote: ↑
Sat 14 Jul 2018 1:15 AM
I have never had a fight thwarted by animists....i mean, its not hard to counter them. Please just learn to fight

That doesn't really address anything that was previously stated. What does this mechanic add to the game? It's completely cheesy and isn't necessary for any class to succeed--even the animist. The animist has the potential in 8-man (with bombers), and I'd rather see that explored than further degrading a core mechanic (LoS), and aiding a class with default questionable design philosophy (animist has unlimited pets, unlikely to have forest clump completely rupted, and easy 1-shot potential). And let's be clear, it helps primarily the animist. Even the thuergist is only slightly helped as theurgist pets rely on cumulative casts to kill a target. It isn't a one-pump chump.

As to the person that commented regarding live--again, live isn't a golden standard and shouldn't be used as one in discussion.

Sat 14 Jul 2018 3:16 AM by bamf

Isavyr wrote: ↑
Sat 14 Jul 2018 2:53 AM
bamf wrote: ↑
Sat 14 Jul 2018 1:15 AM
I have never had a fight thwarted by animists....i mean, its not hard to counter them. Please just learn to fight

That doesn't really address anything that was previously stated. What does this mechanic add to the game? It's completely cheesy and isn't necessary for any class to succeed--even the animist. The animist has the potential in 8-man (with bombers), and I'd rather see that explored than further degrading a core mechanic (LoS), and aiding a class with default questionable design philosophy (animist has unlimited pets, unlikely to have forest clump completely rupted, and easy 1-shot potential). And let's be clear, it helps primarily the animist. Even the thuergist is only slightly helped as theurgist pets rely on cumulative casts to kill a target. It isn't a one-pump chump.

As to the person that commented regarding live--again, live isn't a golden standard and shouldn't be used as one in discussion.

My point is players have dealt with animist for over a decade and the class never made any significant impact in RvR short of keep defense and even then it just takes 1 aoe mezz and 1 bomber. You are really delving in on nothing. Running an animist for bombers does nothing to correlate to the OP as they arent dropping shrooms, sooooo.

Sat 14 Jul 2018 3:25 PM by Quik

Tree wrote: ↑
Sat 14 Jul 2018 12:26 AM
And who says 50% of Hib are animists? Certainly wasnt nowhere true for Uthgard and from what Ive seen there most animists didnt really know how to play their class, so most of you whiners should be pretty safe.

Have you done a /serverinfo lately?

Yesterday in Hib I saw 69 Animists...more than the next 3 classes COMBINED.

50% is a slight exaggeration but not by much.

Sat 14 Jul 2018 4:04 PM by bamf

Quik wrote: ↑
Sat 14 Jul 2018 3:25 PM
Tree wrote: ↑
Sat 14 Jul 2018 12:26 AM
And who says 50% of Hib are animists? Certainly wasnt nowhere true for Uthgard and from what Ive seen there most animists didnt really know how to play their class, so most of you whiners should be pretty safe.

Have you done a /serverinfo lately?

Yesterday in Hib I saw 69 Animists...more than the next 3 classes COMBINED.

50% is a slight exaggeration but not by much.

Its FOTM class. With brand new start to server, most people roll a farming toon for money and items to fund their crafters to do their own templates for their main RvR toon. So as you can pretty much guarentee animist is one of the best solo farmers for hib, everyone wanting what i mentioned above will roll an ani. They rarely go to rvr in real application. Give it a month or 2 and they will drop down to normal numbers, trust me.

Sat 14 Jul 2018 4:11 PM by Quik

bamf wrote: ↑
Sat 14 Jul 2018 4:04 PM
Quik wrote: ↑
Sat 14 Jul 2018 3:25 PM
Tree wrote: ↑
Sat 14 Jul 2018 12:26 AM
And who says 50% of Hib are animists? Certainly wasnt nowhere true for Uthgard and from what Ive seen there most animists didnt really know how to play their class, so most of you whiners should be pretty safe.

Have you done a /serverinfo lately?

Yesterday in Hib I saw 69 Animists...more than the next 3 classes COMBINED.

50% is a slight exaggeration but not by much.

Its FOTM class. With brand new start to server, most people roll a farming toon for money and items to fund their crafters to do their own templates for their main RvR toon. So as you can pretty much guarentee animist is one of the best solo farmers for hib, everyone wanting what i mentioned above will roll an ani. They rarely go to rvr in real application. Give it a month or 2 and they will drop down to normal numbers, trust me.

Oh I agree completely. Yesterday though they were farming eggs so they could level other toons to 20. It was basically a /level20 day for ani's and necro's.

I know it will go away, but it is affecting the entire leveling process in hib. I gave up trying to get a group after 2 days of soloing and started playing Alb earlier then I planned. At least in Alb I was able to get a group quicker.

Weird though, in Mid/Hib they weren't concerned about levels much. I saw a lot of groups with low 20's...some teens and even some single digit levels. In Alb I see most groups wanting lvls 16-20 or 25-30.

Sat 14 Jul 2018 4:17 PM by bamf

Quik wrote: ↑
Sat 14 Jul 2018 4:11 PM
bamf wrote: ↑
Sat 14 Jul 2018 4:04 PM
Quik wrote: ↑
Sat 14 Jul 2018 3:25 PM
Have you done a /serverinfo lately?

Yesterday in Hib I saw 69 Animists...more than the next 3 classes COMBINED.

50% is a slight exaggeration but not by much.

Its FOTM class. With brand new start to server, most people roll a farming toon for money and items to fund their crafters to do their own templates for their main RvR toon. So as you can pretty much guarentee animist is one of the best solo farmers for hib, everyone wanting what i mentioned above will roll an ani. They rarely go to rvr in real application. Give it a month or 2 and they will drop down to normal numbers, trust me.

Oh I agree completely. Yesterday though they were farming eggs so they could level other toons to 20. It was basically a /level20 day for ani's and necro's.

I know it will go away, but it is affecting the entire leveling process in hib. I gave up trying to get a group after 2 days of soloing and started playing Alb earlier then I planned. At least in Alb I was able to get a group quicker.

Weird though, in Mid/Hib they weren't concerned about levels much. I saw a lot of groups with low 20's...some teens and even some single digit levels. In Alb I see most groups wanting lvls 16-20 or 25-30.

Albion historically takes more core classes to make an optimal xp group. Thus more slots need to be filled with high enough levels to do the xp spot efficiently. Whereas mid and hib can get optimal xp with fewer character slots, allowing for a larger range of levels between them.

Sat 14 Jul 2018 4:56 PM by Quik

[/quote]
Albion historically takes more core classes to make an optimal xp group. Thus more slots need to be filled with high enough levels to do the xp spot efficiently. Whereas mid and hib can get optimal xp with fewer character slots, allowing for a larger range of levels between them.
[/quote]

I was thinking this was the reason. I see most groups in Alb don't have endo while the other realms have an easy time with it.

I do have to say though, I spent two days trying to level a Pally and only ended up in 1 group the entire time for about 5 levels. I really don't feen bad for Alb's endo issues since I was told repeatedly they wanted other classes.

I also was told that being a pally I would be expected to hit the same 3 keys over and over repeatedly every fight as well as try to taunt and tank.

I love having things to do, but damn, wanting 3 chants running all the time and being told I would be booted from most groups if I didn't has steered me away.

Good luck Alb on your endo class LOL

Sun 15 Jul 2018 2:42 PM by MacPrior

Well, Animists were nerfed by Mythic very soon. Just because this class is not conformed with total balance of realms and classes.
There were a situation at live server, as some players did couple of lvl 5 animists and camped AMG. They were ably to freeze and to bring to crash the server.

They were banned, but they just showed the inconveniences between (legitim) class abilities of animists and technical possibilities.

Sun 15 Jul 2018 5:12 PM by borkbork

Over the last few days of RvR'ing, we have experienced the animist pets have quite a bit of HP or (they take reduced damage from caster aoe).

Just curious, but should a pet have to take 6+ level 50 DD nukes to die? Seems a bit high.

Mon 16 Jul 2018 3:26 AM by Fugax

They nerfed animist with a cap of pets... also... The pets don't move... MEZ the damn things....

Fri 27 Jul 2018 2:30 PM by Kohi

Prometheus wrote: ↑
Fri 13 Jul 2018 6:08 AM
this poll is very one-sided, of course every alb or mid is going to vote that they would want shrooms to be nerfed, i sure hope they don't take this poll seriously.

That was exactly what i was thinking as i finished reading the opening post and saw the poll, not much more to say. :/
Now, since a few days, pets got nerfed drastically and i'm very disappointed about this decision which makes no sense to me.
As already told above, ae cc and enough (skilled ?) opponents, and shrooms are not a problem at all.

I spent weeks in the alpha testing both ench & ani in order to be sure having those 2 classes fully operational, and just spent 2 days before the nerf testing (incl. live server) and sharing with Zeph (developer) the bugged verdant to solve the pbaoe threat problem, and I really feel now this was all for nothing. I logged my verdant after the nerf to test how much shrooms had been weakened, same spot as i let her the day before. 3 yellow con mobs, 11 dispatched shrooms (3 lines between 300 & 700 so the mobs had to run through the whole shrooms) + main : they all came through. This never happened before. Now, i didn't intend to play ani in rvr here, the verd was only meant as pve char, but after this i decided to completely stop playing her, as i can't rely anymore on shrooms and the briar spell main feature is not to make damage but to hold the aggro, so without a group, chaining yellow/ora single mobs or in the best case blue/green waves, no thanks.

I love Phoenix and respect the work done, believe in this server and i'm convinced that the staff is really dedicated and enthusiast, but i really don't understand this decision when even Mythic didn't do it. I respect however the work done on this server and i'm glad i helped a bit with it, but the thought not playing my ani anymore somehow reduces drastically my fun as much as the damage of my shrooms now. Sorry guys, only my vision and feeling about this.

Tue 4 Sep 2018 5:51 PM by imissswg

All classes and pets should have a second LoS/range check before an attack lands.

Wed 5 Sep 2018 2:34 AM by Jixe

First off the shrooms work abit difirent here then on Uthgard. so the 50 fnf dose not cast intant. instead it has a 2.5 ish sec cast time.
The range a animist can cast a shroom is 1000 on a flat surface. the range the shroom can start its cast is 1000. so it has the same range as a thurg pet cast 2k.

If a player or group run to the shroom in speed 6 it will be on top of the shroom befor it gets its first cast off.
f a player runs normal speed and runs to the shrooms he will get atleast 2 cast on him befor hes free from the range of the shrooms.

Lets say a player runs at speed 6 into the range of the shrooms then turn. it will finish its cast over bolt range. (confirmed today).
The server Uthgard solved this with having them insta cast it instead. witch is both a nerf and a boost to the shrooms. since then when u get hit u can turn and be OOR befor the second cast comes.

Also the shroom has a very big powercost and a long cast time.
The pets can cast 500range shorter then all aoe mezzes can be castet 1500.
They cant move.
15shroom cap
To get 15 shrooms up u need a full powerbar + 90power pot + mcl 2 to get to that point. in a fight u have no power the next 1min if u dont have Raging Power.

The tanks thats tempt and have their body resist buffs takes about 70-90 dmg per cast of one shroom.
If u have one person run into the range u have a problem. if the group dose its less of a problem since the dmg are more spread out.
I could say more ways to counter the Animist pet, but since i am playing one i whount do that here lol =P

Yes animist has one of the strongest nukes in the game with a base dmg of 225dmg. but it also is in the shape of a bomb that can be out runned with speed 5.
The bomb will only be active for 25 sec.

How meny have been killed by a bolt that comes flying towards them and then hide behind a wall. but it still hits u even if u have been standing OOS for 1 sec or more.
lets have a second LoS check on that then too.
Animist is a easy class to counter in any other places.
The animist is its strongest where the shrooms short range of 1000 dosent matter.
Using a animist well in rvr takes more skill then ppls think. yes u can sit at a wall in emain or odins and w8 till ppls run into ur trap. but u can do that with alot of classes. animists dose it cose it is the one of the few ways they can win vs other classes solo.

sorry for the long read but i felt it was needed to say. and sorry for agroing all u spellcheckers out there =P
#Animistlifematters

Wed 5 Sep 2018 5:37 AM by Druth

Shrooms are an issue, because they make keep takes/defence a horrible experience for mids/albs. Because unlike other things, we don't get any credit for clearing shrooms, not even xp.

They are also in the catogory of "things we remember hating from old DaoC", and that means even one death out of 10 times where shrooms didn't matter will stick to our memory. This is like buff-bots, toa (I talked to one who even hates we can get toa skins here... lol).

Personally I'd rather see animists get buffs to other aspects, than for shrooms to be strong again.

Wed 5 Sep 2018 11:18 AM by Jixe

Yes the animist is a issue for you on keep attacks/defence. But u have classes both on alb and mid that can very easy counter the animist. Even in keeps.

On Uthgard with its 1.65 where there was insta casting fnf shrooms and no real cap on them.
It tok the other realms about 6 months of attacking keeps to find a good way to counter them. Be creative in your gameplay and you will find the way too.

Make the shroom cap 3, boost their dmg and have them follow the animist. Thats a BD.
Have the cap at 15, boost their dmg alittle, have them move, but only able to cast on one player befor despawn. W8 thats a thurg.

Having the animist in the same place as buffbots and toa made me smile alittle tho^^

In a keep now u can have 50 animist in the keep defending, but only a total of 15 shrooms in it. The other realms tho have nothing close to as big of a nerf as the animist was given on this server. 15 shroom slots split among all the animists at the keep. I hope u see that ur fears about the shrooms in keeps have no real ground.

But sure i whould welcome any changes to the animist pets aslong as it also has a buff in mind for them too. Whould make me able to find another way to play the class^^

Wed 5 Sep 2018 12:31 PM by Druth

Jixe wrote: ↑
Wed 5 Sep 2018 11:18 AM
Yes the animist is a issue for you on keep attacks/defence. But u have classes both on alb and mid that can very easy counter the animist. Even in keeps.

On Uthgard with its 1.65 where there was insta casting fnf shrooms and no real cap on them.
It tok the other realms about 6 months of attacking keeps to find a good way to counter them. Be creative in your gameplay and you will find the way too.

Make the shroom cap 3, boost their dmg and have them follow the animist. Thats a BD.
Have the cap at 15, boost their dmg alittle, have them move, but only able to cast on one player befor despawn. W8 thats a thurg.

Having the animist in the same place as buffbots and toa made me smile alittle tho^^

In a keep now u can have 50 animist in the keep defending, but only a total of 15 shrooms in it. The other realms tho have nothing close to as big of a nerf as the animist was given on this server. 15 shroom slots split among all the animists at the keep. I hope u see that ur fears about the shrooms in keeps have no real ground.

But sure i whould welcome any changes to the animist pets aslong as it also has a buff in mind for them too. Whould make me able to find another way to play the class^^

I'm sorry, but the arguments for "creative" "easy counters" is what people use(d) to defend minstrels, warlocks, and what ever bad design or imbalanced thing in the game. Sorry, but shrooms are horribly designed for keep battles. A theurg can't attack/damage someone he can't see, he can move out of sight afterwards, but he has to have initial los before doing so. Pbaoe has to put themselves in the danger of being Pbaoe'd back,
Animist has to cast shrooms, and leave them. Maybe they will kill something, maybe not. But they dont have to do anything to make it happen.

It's not that I hate animists that I like their nerf, it's that I hate shrooms mechanics.
And the reason why you'd get 10+ animists in keep defences/takes, is the shrooms and how insanely powerful they are.
There is no other class that has (had) such a big impact on sieges in DaoC until Bainshee came along.

I'm very open to buffing of animists, just not when it comes to shrooms.

And again, do Hibs have a hard time defending/taking keeps with the tools they have? Do they need more shrooms to be on par with Albs/Mids?

Wed 5 Sep 2018 12:56 PM by Jixe

I am sorry too, but it is true both when it comes to minstels and warlock. If all the realms can counter it. Then its balanced no? Just becose ur group or class cant. Dosent mean its broken. It means u ither have the abilitys on CD or is not built for it.

That is the hard part no? Building a group that can counter most of the other classes u meet? Build a group that is as versitile as posible.

Thats one of the most fun thing with this game i the first place. Finding setups that other groups has a hard time to counter.

Saying that a animist can just put down shrooms and w8 sound kinda silly. It takes testing and alot of playtime to find the best spots and the best time to cast them. Lets not forget that after a animist has to dump all his power into shrooms. Including pots and mcl2 to get to cap. The first one will start despawning 1 min later. And after 2 min. Their all gone. So it takes abit more the. Just to put them down...

Alb and mids are alot stronger when it comes to attacking a keep. Hibs are better at defending. The way its allways been.

Wed 5 Sep 2018 12:59 PM by Druth

Jixe wrote: ↑
Wed 5 Sep 2018 12:56 PM
That is the hard part no? Building a group that can counter most of the other classes u meet? Build a group that is as versitile as posible.

You, and not me, who made a scenario of 50 animists in one keep.

And that is excactly what you get if you allow higher shrooms cap, mostly animists. Does that sound "versatile"?

Wed 5 Sep 2018 1:16 PM by Jixe

First off that was to show how the cap of 15 shrooms per animist AND area is allready a very big nerf to the animist.

And when it comes to the versatile part. Thats for 8v8.
Even with no cap like on uthgard. U whould never realy see a animist run with a 8man group for 8v8 ( where group setup is key) they whould allways go for a second mentalist.
The animist whould sit in a keep or at a wall w8ing. Cose it was where it could get kills.
Downing power pots to atleast have a few of them up. One aeo mezz and u where fucked lol^^

Even on keeps u whould very rarely see more then 2-3 animists at a keep attack or defence. Thats on a server with no cap.

Wed 5 Sep 2018 1:22 PM by Druth

Thats what I'd rather see, to give animists tools to be viable for 8man.
Just like thane, paladin, chumps, and so on.

What I do not think is a good idea, is to improve their main strength which also happens to be why people hate them.

Minstrels also argued it was their defining trait, to be a pet class. But with me also having a minstrel, I saw it much much better to get the nerf done on what people hated (purple pets), and thus avoid a sudden major nerf on multiple areas after people had build up enough hatred of the class.

Wed 5 Sep 2018 1:30 PM by Jixe

https://youtu.be/koKhQtFu4pU

Me playing 8v8 as a animist with my guild there Astronauts on uthgard patch 1.65. Useing the shrooms to first protect the backline from mid melees and to push once the field is stable.

We did alot of dmg cose ppls dident know how to counter.

Once i got the animist rr5 ability the moving shroom. No one used it and sayd it was shit. Had some mid telling me they thought it was a lagging shroom that followd tho lol^^
https://youtu.be/W0zi2lQpbkI
Here u can see it pushing hard lol^^

My point is that it is viable atm. On uth the good part was the insta cast and bad cose no second cast cose of oor. Here it is the other way. No insta but u get the second cast.

More on point of this thread. I hope they do find a better way to fix the animist other then Keep nerfing it. And i do agree the second check whould be nice for all pet classes. Just dont single out the animist... its life is hard enough in rvr lol^^

Sun 10 Mar 2019 3:39 PM by Aidereh

all pets should have their range reduced by a % of how far they are away from their master