Event - New Age of Camelot

All good games evolve over time. Daoc is a competitive game but that competition can be partitioned from realm war zergs to 8man and again to smallman ending in the most straight forward form, solo.

ESports is huge at the moment but Daoc is not involved in it. Yet arguably Daoc requires an extreme amount of skill to play effectively whether that's in a 8man setup or solo. The variation of group setups across the realms makes for interesting rock, paper scissors scenarios and even when rock meets paper it may indeed rip through depending on how the fight unfolds, the players position themselves and execute their abilities. Sometimes it comes down to a rng at 1 particular point in a battle giving the advantage and turning the tide.

The game needs some mechanism to promote an actual ESports competition that players can progress towards or enter with their friends which is removed from the original purpose of the game, Realm v Realm. This combat is too large to support an ESports system. One of the most popular form of ESports format is league of legends multiplayer online battle arena. Daoc has the potential to enter this arena but in a unique way. There is already an appetite for high skill videos of good players and how they demonstrate their ability as can be seen by the amount of videos available to view and the view count of some of these videos.

I would propose that an event zone be created that teams may enter in order to compete against other teams. Phoenix is bound by the content of the original game of course and cannot create new zones to fit with any new event. That's said, there is nothing stopping Phoenix from using already existing zones to create their own arena for combat.

The exact details of this competition would need to be fully thrashed out but a taster would be as follows. Teams can teleport to an empty OF Emain/Odin's/Hw while an opposing team then ports in to face off against them. Once two teams are present in that zone, no other group can port in. They roam until the engagement begins and one teams triumph's over the other. Release and you rebuff to roam and fight again. These could be timed to ensure one team does not hide until their abilities are backup. You blow purge on the first fight? Better invest in purge3-4 if you want it again otherwise next fight you are without. Best of 3/5. Winner decided and that team earns 3 points.

These matches could be streamed by a ref watching the engagement like in world building mode with the ability to switch between different characters view at key points in the battle.

The idea is to form a professional league where teams compete against each other and after playing every team in the league crown an eventual Champion.

Stats can easily be tracked during matches to see who was the MVP tank / caster / support. Most death blows. Most deaths. Most healed. Most time spent in CC.. etc I'm jesting on the last few but you get the idea and it's only for Abit of fun as well. These stats could be useful to other teams when replacing members of their own teams from time to time as it can be hard to field the same 8 people every match just like in daily RvR.

Their is huge potential here, not to mention if you opened up team setup without realm constraints, the group compositions become even greater. It also means you have potential for separate leagues -

Traditional - open to Alb/mid/hib groups. No cross realm
Open - 8 member team any class, any realm.
Smallman 4v4
Tri-match leagues - 3 teams to a zone.
RR4L9 capped
Solo league
Stealther only league
Stealth small man open realm teams

Obviously to begin it would make sense to keep the leagues options small, so not to dilute the player pool until such time as more people start trying to compete. This in turn would fuel the viewing.

Their would be no realm points earned for these fights and if you want to increase your realm rank you have to go back to normal RvR to build your realm ranks up. This area would also need refinement to see what works and doesn't.

Yes, it's far fetched but it's just a concept. Their is not long left in the original game unless some innovation can breath new life into it. The original game would always still be there but it gives some people a place to go and given the current player base. A way to promote the game and get new players. I know it would affect actual RvR on the server but as the population dwindles that is already a reality.

Esports is among the gayest shit ever conceived by man and I would not encourage it for any reason

and if you want to increase your realm rank you have to go back to normal RvR to build your realm ranks up

this is why it would never be an esport...esports are around even matchups, not about grinding out 1000hours+ of advantages over others

also, afaik, the tournament NPC has already shown that there is no huge interest in no-reward fights among most groups. Despite what many 8mans say, most are out to farm rewards and measure their success with RP/Hour and not with amount of good fights per evening

easytoremember wrote: ↑

Tue 1 Oct 2019 2:22 AM

Esports is among the gayest shit ever conceived by man and I would not encourage it for any reason

I can see you don't like ESports but is there any need to use some antiquated insulting term to denigrate an idea which the function is to promote the game we all love and play.

Sepplord wrote: ↑

Tue 1 Oct 2019 6:07 AM

and if you want to increase your realm rank you have to go back to normal RvR to build your realm ranks up

this is why it would never be an esport...esports are around even matchups, not about grinding out 1000hours+ of advantages over others

also, afaik, the tournament NPC has already shown that there is no huge interest in no-reward fights among most groups. Despite what many 8mans say, most are out to farm rewards and measure their success with RP/Hour and not with amount of good fights per evening

Negativity without any feedback on a forum which is supposed to be for discussions about Daoc on a custom server. The replies are a quintessential snap shot of the players that now remain.

I'd have preferred some feedback that was constructive and could have furthered the idea. At the end of the day, it's all about trying to find ways to bring new players to an old game. It's an element that mmo's face the second they launch but this is a freeshard and not bound by any hard rules or driven by a desire to increase revenue.

I take your point Sepp, so you read the post but got to a point that you found a perceived flaw from your point of view and then just posted about that. I disagree, as illustrated in the post there is a type of league setup which would satisfying your critique. Capped 4L9 only team zones. It's not the only way you could deal with this problem but it is a solution to the point you made about how it wouldn't work. It is clearly stated more than once, the finer details of these things would require refinement.

Also in league of legends for example, it's all about gaining an advantage (sometimes by out farming in Lane for example) so that your character is ahead of either your direct opponent or overall for a team battle.

As for the comment about how it wouldn't work due to no reward. That's possible I suppose yes. Only if it were implemented and no or few teams registered would you find out for sure. I mean in this scenario there is a reward. Your group wins. You can win a league. You could be the leagues best tank but not the best team. Those other events where there was nothing to earn didn't seem to do well but then again for no reward is anyone surprised?

i guess with capped RRs (at a quite low point) it could work better, or at least attract a bigger crowd that want an even playing field. For me personally DAoC isn't about set up fights. An Arena isn't appealing to me personally (but that's just personal opinion, and not a reason against it).
The difference between farming an advantage in league, and farming RR-advantages in DAoC is that in league every match starts at an even point. If people could take gold from one game into the next, and there would be hundreds of itemslots, then the game wouldn't be a succesful esport.

Also for spectators i don't think there would be a huge demand, afaik MMO-games are VERY hard to convey to spectators. Even players that play the game often can't see/understand what is going on. And people that don't know the game can hardly follow, while (to stay with the example) League is more easy to watch with a few basic informations laid out to the viewer.



Sorry for the negativity, but i have a hard time arguing for such a system that i am not intrested in and doubt would draw many participators/watchers. The only constructive comment i can think of would be to invest stafftime into bugfixes and further improvement of the current system that are already attracting players. The ability to destroy ramparts and raise towers for example would be a huge change that would improve on the tactical choices when attacking keeps (afaik it's not easy to implement though, without breaking other parts)

Vindi, you know i have always been a fan of you and your attitude ingame....buuuut forming an esports daoc league sounds a tad ambitious to say the least.
daoc lives off its charme, unfairness so to speak and partly off its randomness. not because the mechanics are particularly crisp or whatever. i personally consider them being quite stiff actually....definately not daocs strong point. balance is derpy af as well. we all know it.

bottom line is: daoc doesnt look too fresh when wearing a moba-suit....plus i dont think you will get enough people with the same mindset to actually start a LEAGUE.
i do however thank you for trying to come up with something new and i respect the time and effort you put into your post - plus if there was ever a commentated (get cait to do the job - he thinks hes the best daoc player alive plus hes so dry its hilarious ) tournament in whatever format just for shits n giggles (again, because i dont think any serious esports can be reasonably performed in this game) i would totally watch it!

smoochies ♥


edit: formating error

Vindicator wrote: ↑

Tue 1 Oct 2019 12:35 AM

All good games evolve over time. Daoc is a competitive game but that competition can be partitioned from realm war zergs to 8man and again to smallman ending in the most straight forward form, solo.

ESports is huge at the moment but Daoc is not involved in it. Yet arguably Daoc requires an extreme amount of skill to play effectively whether that's in a 8man setup or solo. The variation of group setups across the realms makes for interesting rock, paper scissors scenarios and even when rock meets paper it may indeed rip through depending on how the fight unfolds, the players position themselves and execute their abilities. Sometimes it comes down to a rng at 1 particular point in a battle giving the advantage and turning the tide.

The game needs some mechanism to promote an actual ESports competition that players can progress towards or enter with their friends which is removed from the original purpose of the game, Realm v Realm. This combat is too large to support an ESports system. One of the most popular form of ESports format is league of legends multiplayer online battle arena. Daoc has the potential to enter this arena but in a unique way. There is already an appetite for high skill videos of good players and how they demonstrate their ability as can be seen by the amount of videos available to view and the view count of some of these videos.

I would propose that an event zone be created that teams may enter in order to compete against other teams. Phoenix is bound by the content of the original game of course and cannot create new zones to fit with any new event. That's said, there is nothing stopping Phoenix from using already existing zones to create their own arena for combat.

The exact details of this competition would need to be fully thrashed out but a taster would be as follows. Teams can teleport to an empty OF Emain/Odin's/Hw while an opposing team then ports in to face off against them. Once two teams are present in that zone, no other group can port in. They roam until the engagement begins and one teams triumph's over the other. Release and you rebuff to roam and fight again. These could be timed to ensure one team does not hide until their abilities are backup. You blow purge on the first fight? Better invest in purge3-4 if you want it again otherwise next fight you are without. Best of 3/5. Winner decided and that team earns 3 points.

These matches could be streamed by a ref watching the engagement like in world building mode with the ability to switch between different characters view at key points in the battle.

The idea is to form a professional league where teams compete against each other and after playing every team in the league crown an eventual Champion.

Stats can easily be tracked during matches to see who was the MVP tank / caster / support. Most death blows. Most deaths. Most healed. Most time spent in CC.. etc I'm jesting on the last few but you get the idea and it's only for Abit of fun as well. These stats could be useful to other teams when replacing members of their own teams from time to time as it can be hard to field the same 8 people every match just like in daily RvR.

Their is huge potential here, not to mention if you opened up team setup without realm constraints, the group compositions become even greater. It also means you have potential for separate leagues -

Traditional - open to Alb/mid/hib groups. No cross realm
Open - 8 member team any class, any realm.
Smallman 4v4
Tri-match leagues - 3 teams to a zone.
RR4L9 capped
Solo league
Stealther only league
Stealth small man open realm teams

Obviously to begin it would make sense to keep the leagues options small, so not to dilute the player pool until such time as more people start trying to compete. This in turn would fuel the viewing.

Their would be no realm points earned for these fights and if you want to increase your realm rank you have to go back to normal RvR to build your realm ranks up. This area would also need refinement to see what works and doesn't.

Yes, it's far fetched but it's just a concept. Their is not long left in the original game unless some innovation can breath new life into it. The original game would always still be there but it gives some people a place to go and given the current player base. A way to promote the game and get new players. I know it would affect actual RvR on the server but as the population dwindles that is already a reality.

With the current groups in NA the only people who would fight would be hibs, the other realms don’t have 8 mans that can really compete at the moment.

REVOLTE wrote: ↑

Tue 1 Oct 2019 8:53 AM

Vindi, you know i have always been a fan of you and your attitude ingame....buuuut forming an esports daoc league sounds a tad ambitious to say the least.
daoc lives off its charme, unfairness so to speak and partly off its randomness. not because the mechanics are particularly crisp or whatever. i personally consider them being quite stiff actually....definately not daocs strong point. balance is derpy af as well. we all know it.

bottom line is: daoc doesnt look too fresh when wearing a moba-suit....plus i dont think you will get enough people with the same mindset to actually start a LEAGUE.
i do however thank you for trying to come up with something new and i respec - plus if there was ever a commentated (get cait to do the job - he thinks hes the best daoc player alive plus hes so dry its hilarious ) tournament in whatever format just for shits n giggles (again, because i dont think any serious esports can be reasonably performed in this game) i would totally watch it!

smoochies ♥

Yeah that's part of the rng I'd suggest but I know what you mean. I guess this post was to put the idea out there. If the community isn't interested in it then it wouldnt succeed. That's the point though, just to get the community thinking of ways for us all to get involved and have more fun. There are possibilities there for the game to develop and who knows what interesting path Phoenix will take or if it runs out of road sooner rather than later! I hope not but it's possible!

Yeah Sepp that's totally fair. If you are against it from the get go then that's your opinion and I wouldn't dispute that. Really it was just a concept, honestly I'd only hope that maybe a positive idea or other concept comes from the discussion which then in turn affects the server positively for us all 😉.

More of the same Keelia, just negative thought on how it wouldn't work because of XYZ. That's said I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you but I suppose I'd point out that you are only looking at it from how the current population is with this idea directly laid over it. If it was new would their be new people or older players returning? Probably. Would their be brand new players in general leveling up trying to get involved? Hopefully.

It is funny to see people just jump on an idea and attempt to tear it down without any comment or attempt to embrace it.

Keelia wrote: ↑

Tue 1 Oct 2019 12:43 PM

Vindicator wrote: ↑

Tue 1 Oct 2019 12:35 AM

All good games evolve over time. Daoc is a competitive game but that competition can be partitioned from realm war zergs to 8man and again to smallman ending in the most straight forward form, solo.

ESports is huge at the moment but Daoc is not involved in it. Yet arguably Daoc requires an extreme amount of skill to play effectively whether that's in a 8man setup or solo. The variation of group setups across the realms makes for interesting rock, paper scissors scenarios and even when rock meets paper it may indeed rip through depending on how the fight unfolds, the players position themselves and execute their abilities. Sometimes it comes down to a rng at 1 particular point in a battle giving the advantage and turning the tide.

The game needs some mechanism to promote an actual ESports competition that players can progress towards or enter with their friends which is removed from the original purpose of the game, Realm v Realm. This combat is too large to support an ESports system. One of the most popular form of ESports format is league of legends multiplayer online battle arena. Daoc has the potential to enter this arena but in a unique way. There is already an appetite for high skill videos of good players and how they demonstrate their ability as can be seen by the amount of videos available to view and the view count of some of these videos.

I would propose that an event zone be created that teams may enter in order to compete against other teams. Phoenix is bound by the content of the original game of course and cannot create new zones to fit with any new event. That's said, there is nothing stopping Phoenix from using already existing zones to create their own arena for combat.

The exact details of this competition would need to be fully thrashed out but a taster would be as follows. Teams can teleport to an empty OF Emain/Odin's/Hw while an opposing team then ports in to face off against them. Once two teams are present in that zone, no other group can port in. They roam until the engagement begins and one teams triumph's over the other. Release and you rebuff to roam and fight again. These could be timed to ensure one team does not hide until their abilities are backup. You blow purge on the first fight? Better invest in purge3-4 if you want it again otherwise next fight you are without. Best of 3/5. Winner decided and that team earns 3 points.

These matches could be streamed by a ref watching the engagement like in world building mode with the ability to switch between different characters view at key points in the battle.

The idea is to form a professional league where teams compete against each other and after playing every team in the league crown an eventual Champion.

Stats can easily be tracked during matches to see who was the MVP tank / caster / support. Most death blows. Most deaths. Most healed. Most time spent in CC.. etc I'm jesting on the last few but you get the idea and it's only for Abit of fun as well. These stats could be useful to other teams when replacing members of their own teams from time to time as it can be hard to field the same 8 people every match just like in daily RvR.

Their is huge potential here, not to mention if you opened up team setup without realm constraints, the group compositions become even greater. It also means you have potential for separate leagues -

Traditional - open to Alb/mid/hib groups. No cross realm
Open - 8 member team any class, any realm.
Smallman 4v4
Tri-match leagues - 3 teams to a zone.
RR4L9 capped
Solo league
Stealther only league
Stealth small man open realm teams

Obviously to begin it would make sense to keep the leagues options small, so not to dilute the player pool until such time as more people start trying to compete. This in turn would fuel the viewing.

Their would be no realm points earned for these fights and if you want to increase your realm rank you have to go back to normal RvR to build your realm ranks up. This area would also need refinement to see what works and doesn't.

Yes, it's far fetched but it's just a concept. Their is not long left in the original game unless some innovation can breath new life into it. The original game would always still be there but it gives some people a place to go and given the current player base. A way to promote the game and get new players. I know it would affect actual RvR on the server but as the population dwindles that is already a reality.

With the current groups in NA the only people who would fight would be hibs, the other realms don’t have 8 mans that can really compete at the moment.

tanglers are still op. If we mezz them hibs just cast more or demez. It's almost like we should just turn around and let you push on us

Roto23 wrote: ↑

Tue 1 Oct 2019 4:59 PM

Keelia wrote: ↑

Tue 1 Oct 2019 12:43 PM

Vindicator wrote: ↑

Tue 1 Oct 2019 12:35 AM

All good games evolve over time. Daoc is a competitive game but that competition can be partitioned from realm war zergs to 8man and again to smallman ending in the most straight forward form, solo.

ESports is huge at the moment but Daoc is not involved in it. Yet arguably Daoc requires an extreme amount of skill to play effectively whether that's in a 8man setup or solo. The variation of group setups across the realms makes for interesting rock, paper scissors scenarios and even when rock meets paper it may indeed rip through depending on how the fight unfolds, the players position themselves and execute their abilities. Sometimes it comes down to a rng at 1 particular point in a battle giving the advantage and turning the tide.

The game needs some mechanism to promote an actual ESports competition that players can progress towards or enter with their friends which is removed from the original purpose of the game, Realm v Realm. This combat is too large to support an ESports system. One of the most popular form of ESports format is league of legends multiplayer online battle arena. Daoc has the potential to enter this arena but in a unique way. There is already an appetite for high skill videos of good players and how they demonstrate their ability as can be seen by the amount of videos available to view and the view count of some of these videos.

I would propose that an event zone be created that teams may enter in order to compete against other teams. Phoenix is bound by the content of the original game of course and cannot create new zones to fit with any new event. That's said, there is nothing stopping Phoenix from using already existing zones to create their own arena for combat.

The exact details of this competition would need to be fully thrashed out but a taster would be as follows. Teams can teleport to an empty OF Emain/Odin's/Hw while an opposing team then ports in to face off against them. Once two teams are present in that zone, no other group can port in. They roam until the engagement begins and one teams triumph's over the other. Release and you rebuff to roam and fight again. These could be timed to ensure one team does not hide until their abilities are backup. You blow purge on the first fight? Better invest in purge3-4 if you want it again otherwise next fight you are without. Best of 3/5. Winner decided and that team earns 3 points.

These matches could be streamed by a ref watching the engagement like in world building mode with the ability to switch between different characters view at key points in the battle.

The idea is to form a professional league where teams compete against each other and after playing every team in the league crown an eventual Champion.

Stats can easily be tracked during matches to see who was the MVP tank / caster / support. Most death blows. Most deaths. Most healed. Most time spent in CC.. etc I'm jesting on the last few but you get the idea and it's only for Abit of fun as well. These stats could be useful to other teams when replacing members of their own teams from time to time as it can be hard to field the same 8 people every match just like in daily RvR.

Their is huge potential here, not to mention if you opened up team setup without realm constraints, the group compositions become even greater. It also means you have potential for separate leagues -

Traditional - open to Alb/mid/hib groups. No cross realm
Open - 8 member team any class, any realm.
Smallman 4v4
Tri-match leagues - 3 teams to a zone.
RR4L9 capped
Solo league
Stealther only league
Stealth small man open realm teams

Obviously to begin it would make sense to keep the leagues options small, so not to dilute the player pool until such time as more people start trying to compete. This in turn would fuel the viewing.

Their would be no realm points earned for these fights and if you want to increase your realm rank you have to go back to normal RvR to build your realm ranks up. This area would also need refinement to see what works and doesn't.

Yes, it's far fetched but it's just a concept. Their is not long left in the original game unless some innovation can breath new life into it. The original game would always still be there but it gives some people a place to go and given the current player base. A way to promote the game and get new players. I know it would affect actual RvR on the server but as the population dwindles that is already a reality.

With the current groups in NA the only people who would fight would be hibs, the other realms don’t have 8 mans that can really compete at the moment.

tanglers are still op. If we mezz them hibs just cast more or demez. It's almost like we should just turn around and let you push on us

Nah, we beat PKs group all the time on our albs. Just have to know how to fight it, need the right setup as well. Luckily that’s what we ran on alb.