Sprinting Backwards in water - exploiting?

Started 23 Jun 2021
by Tashkent
in Ask the Team
Thu 24 Jun 2021 6:07 AM by Astaa
#164420
Because part of your agreement when purchasing the game (client) is that you will not modify it and while pretty weak, legally, I am not sure if any such agreements have ever been challenged in court, it's probably not the best idea to try it out
Thu 24 Jun 2021 7:29 AM by Sepplord
#164424
Uthred wrote:
Wed 23 Jun 2021 5:06 PM
It is listed in the rules.

10. Bug abuse and exploits
10.2 Exploiting is defined as the commission of an action within the game to circumvent or alter the normal functions of the said game.

So yes, it is an exploit.
Thanks for making it clear in this case.
The rule is hard to interpret for players though, due to huge exceptions.

Facing or sticking a target are clearly functions that are supposed to keep a target in front of you. Being able to do side- and even backstyles on those players is clearly circumvention of the /face - function.
Everyone is under the assumption that it is not considered an exploit (there are people that think it is an exploit, but they are also aware that you do not consider it one, like most servers). It is considered "skill" to be able to do it.


So what is the difference to backpeddling in water? Don't get me wrong, i am not trying to advocate to allow it. I want to suggest to list the known exploits in the rules, with a disclaimer "this list is not exhaustive" and while there would still be other cases, it would be easy for anyone new to spot what is forbidden and what isn't.
Thu 24 Jun 2021 9:06 AM by Noashakra
#164433
You are not supposed to go faster/at the same speed backward running that you go forward.
It's like the side straff under sos.
Thu 24 Jun 2021 12:34 PM by Blitze
#164439
I dont see much difference between backwards water sprint, side-style strafeing, and strafing at low HP...
I believe they are all exploits of the game mechanics and are not intended.
However, i have a feeling that depending on how hard they are the fix, depends on how well they are tolerated.
Thu 24 Jun 2021 1:31 PM by Nunki
#164440
The core problem I see in this rule is that it is nearly impossible to avoid the behaviour.
Moving (in any direction) is a normal game function.
"Theoretically" getting banned for moving backwards in water is a joke because every player at some point will do that during the fight.
You can easily gain "advantage" unintentionally.

At no point I would consider a side-effect of moving backwards as a violationg of any rules as a new players. And violations should be clear.

Moving backwards is a "normal function" and there is no way to to bypass the movement speed boost when moving backwards in water.

That bug beeing "unfixable" means the permanent use of that bug is unavoidable in the long term.
I accept that you punish players for abusing bugs which could get fixed in a period of time and/or provide an advantage other players don't have, but everything that is "unfixable" and "everyday use for every player" should either be unpunishable or blocked by the GMs.

Is there no way to deactivate backwards-movement while swimming?

Big respect for your work.
Have a good time.
Fri 25 Jun 2021 3:58 PM by gruenesschaf
#164512
While the definition of exploit is rather weirdly worded, this quite clearly falls under bug abuse / exploiting just via common sense.

The bug is that the client calculates the speed under certain circumstances wrongly. For example, it doesn't take the hp penalty into account while strafing and it doesn't take the water penalty into account while sprinting backwards in water.
Getting an advantage from any kind of bug is pretty much the definition of exploiting (a bug), repeatedly invoking the buggy behavior (to get an advantage) is basically the definition of bug abuse. Usually both terms are used interchangeably as in the end they kind of describe the same result.

In case of these and similar bugs, where it can be argued that a reasonable player might assume their behavior is fine, the player will get a warning before other actions are taken.
Fri 25 Jun 2021 4:16 PM by gruenesschaf
#164514
Sepplord wrote:
Thu 24 Jun 2021 7:29 AM
Facing or sticking a target are clearly functions that are supposed to keep a target in front of you. Being able to do side- and even backstyles on those players is clearly circumvention of the /face - function.
Everyone is under the assumption that it is not considered an exploit (there are people that think it is an exploit, but they are also aware that you do not consider it one, like most servers). It is considered "skill" to be able to do it.

So what is the difference to backpeddling in water? Don't get me wrong, i am not trying to advocate to allow it. I want to suggest to list the known exploits in the rules, with a disclaimer "this list is not exhaustive" and while there would still be other cases, it would be easy for anyone new to spot what is forbidden and what isn't.

There is technically no difference except that things like strafing to land positionals are condoned.

As for adding a non exhaustive list to the rule, we prefer to give those people a warning instead. While everyone obviously has read the rules very carefully and can recite them backwards from memory at any time, giving a warning for circumstances that have been explicitly forbidden seems weird and hence we very much prefer to keep it somewhat unclear and to give a warning instead when the full circumstances of the individual case warrant it (aka it was so blatant / beneficial that it actually made someone report it).
Mon 28 Jun 2021 6:31 AM by Sepplord
#164612
gruenesschaf wrote: While everyone obviously has read the rules very carefully and can recite them backwards from memory at any time



but, fair enough, that explanation makes perfect sense
Mon 28 Jun 2021 10:14 AM by Tommylad
#164615
" I was running backwards to avoid any side stun shenanigans"........... OMG it gets more absurd every day. Running backwards is not allowed. Maybe the Phoenix needs to stop flying upside down and backwards.
Mon 28 Jun 2021 10:57 AM by Blitze
#164619
Although sprinting backwards is not fully effective against sidestylelag shennanigans... it can help.
I didn't know that sprinting backwards was faster in water and I avoid fighting in water best i can, however, now i know that sprint backwards is more effective there, i may try and fight people with sidestuns there.

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